Pump shotgun comparison

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nmminate	Pump shotgun comparison	Lead	[-]
Posts: 762 (09/05/05 05:58 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I figure this one can be considered on-topic, since the three guns I want to ask about have all been used by the U.S. military in some form or another. I was basically just wondering how the Remington 870, Mossberg 500, and Winchester 1200 compared, quality-wise. Reliability, durability, versatility... whatever. I own both a Mossberg and a Winchester, and have never had any problems with either of them, and, were it not for the markings, I wouldn't be able to tell the one model from the other. So do any of these guns have a real edge over the others, or are all three essentially the same (I'm talking about the current production ones, btw... I realize older versions may be of higher quality). Well, for whoever's still reading, thanks for looking at my stoopid question. :P I'm definitely a n00b when it comes to shotguns. Nate
dfariswheel	Re: Pump shotgun comparison	#1	[-]
Posts: 975 (09/05/05 10:43 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	All this depends on the people using the gun. For most civilian users, one will serve as well as the others. For the most part, it's only when you start getting up over 25,000 rounds that you may start to have more trouble from the Winchester 1300 or the Mossberg 500. The Remington 870 will last longer and give less trouble due to the steel receiver and heavier-duty internal parts. It's when you get into Law Enforcement that the situation really changes. NO ONE is rougher and more abusive of shotguns than street cops. This ranges from neglect to using the gun as a pry bar, club, battering ram, or letting it quietly rust in a damp car trunk. About 95% of all American law enforcement use the Remington 870 Police gun. There is a reason for this, and it isn't because they get a better deal on the 870. In fact, the 870 costs MORE than the cheaper to make, cast aluminum Winchester and Mossberg. NO shotgun has the 55 year history and reputation the 870 has for standing up to the abuse street cops give shotguns. The 870 has a proven record of taking all the abuse and still working. THAT's why law enforcement buys Remington by the 95% market share. So, if you're an average gun owner who takes good care of his guns, any one of the three will do fine, and last you for many years. If you're a heavy-duty clay pigeon shooter who'll put hundreds of thousands of rounds through a gun, the Remington is better. The 870 is reported to start wearing out....somewhere around 250,000 (one quarter of a million) rounds or so. If you're a working cop or in the military, again, the 870 is the way to go. Last, there are more accessories available for the 870 than any other gun.
jjk308	Re: Pump shotgun comparison	#2	[-]
Posts: 2959 (09/06/05 06:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ithaca 37/87 anyone? Too bad they went under. I think the Mossberg has become almost as good as the 870, with the Winchester running 3rd - 4th if you include the Ithaca, which rates on top if you're a lefty or are out in the rain a lot. And one hunting season will beat up a gun more than a year or 2 of the typical police work. The Chinese, etc... are way back there. I wouldn't trust them as much as a good used US gun at the same price. No guarantees as to parts availability. The same held true for some Japanese guns some years ago. They made a Browning A5 look-alike. Saw one with one busted spring, except that spring was over 2 feet long bent in a complex shape and used a non-standard guage of wire. The gunsmith couldn't find one and couldn't make one - scratch one shotgun.
reddogge	Re: Pump shotgun comparison	#3	[-]
Posts: 4961 (09/06/05 07:31 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've owned up to (3) 870 Wingmasters at once since 1965 and I put them through the worst possible conditions, duck hunting in salt water. They held up. Only fail to function was a gummed up trigger assembly which Break Free fixed. I also borrowed a Mossberg 500 and killed a nice fat doe with a rifled slug the first morning. Can't complain about that. No experience with a Winchester outside of my buddy owns a Winchester Model 42 his dad gave him 45 years ago I would give my right arm for.
nothernug	Re: Pump shotgun comparison	#4	[-]
Posts: 11527 (09/06/05 09:55 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You're right on topic. No problems there. Never had a Winchester so I can't tell you about them. And I do like my Ithica 37. But I like the "combat load" option of the side ported shotguns. Rack the slide, flip in one round and jack it in. Then if you have a moment to spare load the magazine. The 870 had an edge over the Mossy500 in the it had two arms from the pump to mossberg's one. That made the Remington smoother and more stable. Newer Mossbergs are using the double arm these days too. The safety of the two is different. The Mossberg has a tang safety and the 870 a trigger guard mounted safety. For defense work I like the 870's set up better. Once with a Mossberg looking for a prowler I caught myself with my thumb on the safety and finger on the trigger. BIIIIG no no! Training can correct that but the Remington's set up makes it almost natural to park the trigger finger on the safety...and off the trigger. But I do like the Mossberg's arrangement fine for hunting. For the record, the Ithica's safety is set up the same way as the Remington's. When it comes down to it, these days I only have two shotguns, a Remington wing master and an Ithica. My two mossbergs where chosen for trade. So I guess they would be my last choice. In all fairness the Remington was made in 1955 (my birthyear ) and is much better made than any of them these days and the Ithica is my much loved "ugly gun" and close defense arm. So the particular weapons had as much to do with my selection as the model specifics. You can see 'em here, p102.ezboard.com/fparalla...=236.topic (please post your own pics there too. ) Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
Kivaari	Re: Pump shotgun comparison	#5	[-]
Posts: 2775 (09/09/05 12:38 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The enigma of the 870 is that during a time when mfg's were cheapening weapons to keep the price low Remington improved the 870. It's rock solid and there is no comparison to the Mossberg or current Winchester. The quality and fitment of the 870 range from the "Express" to the "Wingmaster" and then to the best LE models. The Winchester Model 12 was a machining marvel and rock solid , but "too expensive" to mfg and hence the newer 1200 and 1300 series Winchesters. The bolt design is redeeming for the 1300 series locking on a barrel extension. However, stamped parts are amuck...and I own one which I purchased before I knew better.. plastic trigger guards with integral shell latches and plastic fasteners of magazine tubes to receivers just turn me off... The Ithaca Model 37 and Remington Model 17 are excellent as well and very light in weight due to simplicity and synergy of parts' function...not airplane alloys. Rock solid designs by Mr. Browning. Double action arms are over billed. I've straightened action arms on both platforms, regardless. This is , of course, merely my 'pinion and subject to human error.. kivaari quality SKS trigger tuning www.kivaari.com
nothernug		#6	[-]
Posts: 10468 (12/12/07 12:44 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Kivaari, the opinions of anybody flying that Lone Star flag are most highly regarded I assure you! Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
whirlibird		#7	[-]
Posts: 36 (03/13/08 02:17 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	During a side by side comparison, shooting clay pigeons one day, my friends and I each brought our shotguns: my Winchester 97, a Remington 870, and a Winchester 1300. All three shotguns were equipped with short, 20-22 inch barrels. I guess it's just me, but I absolutely love my Win 97 the best. Of course I've owned it since about 1987 and am quite familiar with it, but I especially appreciate the exposed hammer with half-cock safety, and it just "feels" right nestling into my shoulder whether yelling "pull" or lining up on a rabbit. For the record, my 97 was made in 1927 and previously owned by the Holland, Michigan and Grand Haven, Michigan police departments and was not beat to a pulp before I acquired it. The finish (i.e. bluing) is gone but the furniture and functioning has been and remains flawless. The 870 was OK, with a similar "robust" feeling with steel receiver and felt great coming to the shoulder, but felt somewhat clumsy because it has a thicker forearm and thicker grip than my Win 97. Since then I've used the same 870 during dove season but I just can't get used to the position of the safety; too many years of using my thumb with the 97. I was not impressed with the Winchester 1300. My friend bought it used, so perhaps it just wasn't quite broken in, but I thought the slide felt and sounded terribly rough; the action just didn't feel smooth. With its light weight aluminum receiver I also don't feel that it was as smooth to handle (shoulder, line up on target, follow through) as the Rem 870 or the Win 97; but maybe a longer barrel would have helped. I have shot several Mossbergs. Over the years I have owned two Mossbergs and one Western Field. Again, I love the position of the safety. I have found all three of the actions to be smooth, even the one brand new Mossberg Regal felt great right out of the box (wish I'd have kept that one). I find the aluminum receiver to be easy to handle and is very nice when toting through the brush all day long. I also find the successful completion of the military torture test (MIL-S-3443E) to be an attractive feature attesting to the robustness of the aluminum receiver and internal parts reliability. To be completely fair, it would be interesting to do a side by side comparison between my friend's Winchester 1300 and my current Mossberg; except my friend has moved away and I don't know anyone else with the same model. Just my .02… Blessing, -werl Last Edited By: whirlibird 03/13/08 02:20 AM. Edited 1 times.