7.7 Jap?

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meister mash	7.7 Jap?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 19 (01/14/08 03:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Anyone ever load for the 7.7 jap? Can I just get a set of dies, run in some 30-06 cases, load them and go? I have 303 bullets, 06 cases, data. Just need the dies if 06 cases will work. Just acquired an Arisaka on auction. Thankyou in advance.
Tenring36		#1	[-]
Posts: 585 (01/14/08 04:02 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've never resized 30-06 brass to 7.7, but I have resized 8mm brass with very good results. Just size it with a 7.7 sizing die. I understand that resized 30-06 brass requires quite a bit of trimming. Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for .... Will Rogers
Parashooter		#2	[-]
Posts: 1396 (01/14/08 04:24 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Note the short head-shoulder and overall length dimensions on the 8x57 cases and you might want to stick with 30/06. There are various effective ways to mechanize trim operations.
Mountain Doctor		#3	[-]
Posts: 2123 (01/14/08 05:47 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	8mm Mauser is the way to go. Cheap and easy way to do it is with pulled Turk, resized, and charged, and seated with a .303 bullet (.311, IIRC). Remember though the Turk primer will still be corosive so clean with water/ Windex as indicated..
meister mash	7.7 Jap?	#4	[-]
Posts: 20 (01/14/08 08:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks alot for that 8mm suggestion. Sizing that 8mm neck down to 7.7 probably leaves enough of a false shoulder there to fire form. However, I have quite a few 06 cases. I have a lathe and can probably trim off the most with it. Then use a trimmer on the last little bit.
Doc AV	Case making 7,7 Japanese	#5	[-]
Posts: 2158 (01/14/08 11:52 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My first attempt back in 1967 at making 7,7 Japanese cases was exactly the 7,9 case source(Boxer Primed IMI Israeli 1955 Milsurp) but I used Once fired cases, the reason being, the fired neck gave a little more "False Shoulder" to properly headspace the case, and in order to center the case in the rear of the chamber, my fire-form load used also a round of masking tape (1/4 inch wide) to centre the case in the chamber, and give an equal head expansion. Years late I did make the 7,7 cases from .30/06 once-fired Milbrass. Since I do a Lot ( 100ks) of trimming of all sorts of cases for Movie blank manufacture, I use my oldest lathe ( Hercus ARL--clone of South Bend design) which has sufficient energy to do rapid case cutting, and a "knife" tool ( very sharp cutting point, about 30 degrees wide), using the straight edge parallel to the chuck face to give a clean cut to the case.Once set up (I use positive-stop chucks within the 3-Jaw) to cut to correct length, it's just like a Factory case trimmer...the Mouth is square cut, correct to length, and just needs a deburr with the double ended tool (inside and out--for resale cases only...blanks get crimped.) I use 5/16 HSS square Tool steel, ground to shape without any top rake ( about 8 degrees front and side rake, for clearance) and set up in a bar (5/ which has been "squared" off to sit properly in my Multiple tool Holder, and give correct cutting tip height.. The tool steel is held in the bar by an allen screw, in a round hole ( easier to make up in the lathe.) I have several of these "pre-set" bars, and can do Cut-off(Trim), Extractor groove cutting ( Formed tool), and Rim thinning/ Rim diameter reduction/ Rim bevelling (Different angles). When one has to do several hundreds or thousands of cases (Commercial Obsolete Case supply or Movie Blanks,) a lathe is the only thing short of a proper Factory Case trimmer or head cutter that will do the job with any efficiency. Regards, Doc AV AV Ballistics.
doug henry		#6	[-]
Posts: 1682 (01/15/08 01:56 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Re-sizing and fire forming 8mm brass is the easiest and there is plenty of case neck to hold bullets. Re-sizing and machining 30-06 military brass cases are stronger. I have done both with equal performance and accuracy.
Mountain Doctor		#7	[-]
Posts: 2129 (01/15/08 07:39 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'd trade you primed Turk 8mm brass for some of your '06 if you like, I'll trade you two Turks (Berdan primed) for each '06.
meister mash		#8	[-]
Posts: 21 (01/16/08 12:24 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thankyou for the offer but, I've plenty of 8mm cases also. I haven't gotten the rifle yet. Just planing ahead. I probably will only turn out 50 or so anyway. I might try 270 cases as I think that I have some range pickups. I don't have a 270. That will keep me from mixen ammo into the wrong rifle.
doug henry		#9	[-]
Posts: 1684 (01/18/08 01:08 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	A few notes on reforming cases and the need for annealing neck and shudders. In general, commercial brass is softer than military brass and will reform with less cracking. 8mm to 30 caliber usually reforms without problems but does stress brass, annealing will give more life to the case. 270 to 30 caliber stretches the neck which will result in more neck cracks. Annealing before reforming will minimize splits as well as annealing after reforming for longevity.
hoplophile		#10	[-]
Posts: 80 (01/19/08 12:24 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I started-out with .30-06 cases until it started eating into the pile of casings I needed for my M1917 Enfield. Then I moved to the .270Win, .280 Rem, and .25-06 brass I had in a box gathering dust. The smaller neck size makes it more difficult to work with, but you might get through it easier by annealing them first. I trimmed the cases back as the first step so the expander would have less meat to push through. These are practice rounds and probably wouldn't win any benchrest matches, but they're as good as anything I've seen up to a good load using Norma or other factory brass. So far I have about 750 rounds I've made this way using both .303 Brit pulled bullets and Rem 180gr RNSP's. The 180's tend to kick a bit in my little T99 though, even when using the moderate load data in the books. No signs of overpressure yet, but a few of the necks in the first batch I didn't anneal had the beginnings of splits at the case mouth. I also use that sizing wax Midway sells.
boltslapper	7.7 Jap reloading	#11	[-]
Posts: 361 (03/09/08 10:12 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My loading for the 7.7 Jap has been limited to using brass that I purchased from Graf & Sons several years ago. Gafs still sells this brass, although they are frequently out of stock, watch the website for availability. This brass is now being furnished by PRVI Partisan, which I believe is the same brass that used to have the Graf headstamp. I load this with Hornady 174 gr. FMJBT and 43 gr. XMR4064 with Lee factory crimp.
Landngroove		#12	[-]
Posts: 1 (03/23/08 04:52 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I make my own cases for my type 99 Arisaka's from .30-'06 brass. Run the '06 brass thru your 7.7 full length die, with the expander removed. Now put that resized brass into a 7.7 trim die, and hacksaw off the excess neck. Now would be a good time to anneal the resized case necks. Next run these cases thru the 7.7 resize die with the expander in place. Recheck case length, trim, if necessary, and chamfer. The whole process is time consuming, but it is fun, and you will get satisfaction, knowing you made your own.
Parashooter		#13	[-]
Posts: 1446 (03/23/08 08:01 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Sounds like you're doing a lot of extra work. There's something wrong with a 7.7x58 trim die that requires 30/06 brass to be sized before trimming. A normal trim die will do the initial forming job when fed new or fired '06 brass - no prior sizing needed. All those steps you describe can be significantly reduced with proper dies. Form and trim in the trim die, then decap, size, expand in the normal F.L. die. It's also possible to decap, form, size, and expand with just one pass in most F.L. dies, then trim with a lathe-type trimmer (preferably motor-driven if one is doing more than a handful). When using once-fired GI .30/06 brass, I've found annealing isn't really necessary immediately after forming to 7.7x58 and can be postponed until the cases have been through a few loading cycles. Some foreign and commercial cases may form better if annealed before starting work on them - same goes for cases that have been fired several times before forming.
blob43	Loading the 7.7 jap	#14	[-]
Posts: 1 (04/21/08 08:54 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have reformed many into 7.7 and they work real well. While the trimming is abit long a lee trimmer in a drill works well. I have used Winchester, Remington, Lake city and Federal. I like the winchester best and the lake city next. In fact I just this week end shot a .470 three shot group using lake city reformed cases, 46.5 grains of H380, winchester primer with bullet depth at 2.775. I cut the primer pockets deeper and flat with a primer pocket swage. After the cases are fire formed I resize only the neck for the next round. I have found that the lake city cases(not match) can weigh several grains differance between cases. Although I sort all my cases by weight, the lake city cases are hard to get the same. So I seperate:EXAMPLE: 180.0 to 180.5 and 180.5 to 180.9. I do this for my .308 also. But the old Jap is fun to shoot and hey I out shot a $900.00 AR15 this week!
blob43	reforming 30-06 cases to 7.7 jap	#15	[-]
Posts: 2 (04/21/08 09:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Parashooter makes a very good point when it comes to reforming. 30-06 works best and I can see where .280 and .270 cases would work although I haven't tried them. The rifle I have was found in a wooden case in Japan by my father in law. The barrel has great rifling. Checking on the internet I found it was made in two different arsenals. The barrel looks to have been made from American steel we sent over before the war. It has a real shiney black finish and is 30 inches long. The action was made in 1944. It had not been shot, or if it had it wasn't much. Shoot s good.
Crang11		#16	[-]
Posts: 371 (04/22/08 04:46 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Its quite simple- I buy mine from Grafs. I picked some up a couple of months ago. Its not that I couldnt form my own cases, but it seems silly to when its commercially available. "As to the species of exercise I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind." -Thomas Jefferson
type99		#17	[-]
Posts: 66 (04/24/08 05:55 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	What works best for me, after experimentation with trimming .30-06 to size, is using 8mm Mauser brass. It is a little bit short, but this has no practical effect on accuracy or function. It sure beats all the time spent trimming the -06 cases. All you need do is run the 8mm Mauser brass through the Jap sizing die, and voila! -- a finished case ready for reloading. Cheers, Gary
delloro		#18	[-]
Posts: 374 (04/28/08 11:22 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I just loaded some 8mm cases using 7.62x54r dies. will see hown they shoot in the arisaka next weekend.
DickTracy1953		#19	[-]
Posts: 2062 (05/01/08 10:20 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	hoplophile.. darn, I am looking for 25-06.. I just bought fifty virgins for twenty two dollars yesterday. Those virgins along with some slightly used ones that I picked up over the years will at least provide me with some fun. In any case it is cheaper than using factory new in the box as a starting point.

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