8X56R Reloading Problem -- ANOTHER problem

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Mad 4 Mausers	8X56R Reloading Problem -- ANOTHER problem	Lead	[-]
Posts: 615 (06/17/08 03:58 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Ran into a problem while attempting to full-size some one-time fired Graf &Sons brass with a new Lee die. What happens is that a length-wise dimple is created in the shoulder/neck area. I've tried to avoid this by performing the process very slowly while several times backing off and turning the brass a few degrees at a time, but to no avail. I seems to appear in the final part of the stroke. Also, the brass was lubed ahead of time. Would greatly appreciate some advice on this. Is it perhaps a faulty die? Here's a picture: Last Edited By: Mad 4 Mausers 06/21/08 12:13 AM. Edited 2 times.
type99		#1	[-]
Posts: 68 (06/17/08 05:33 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hello... Have you considered that the problem may be lubrication? The only thing I have seen cause such dimples is excessive lubrication. However, this is with bottle necked cartridges. Try very little or no lubrication, and see if that makes a difference. I sincerely doubt it is a problem with the reloading die itself. At least, I have never had that happen to me. But I have had dimpled cases due to too much lubrication. And it doesn't take much! Cheers, Gary
Mad 4 Mausers		#2	[-]
Posts: 617 (06/17/08 08:27 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Gary, You were absolutely correct! Thank you very much. I also resized the brass with the dimples in them, but the dimples weren't entirely smoothed out. Do you know if it would be safe to charge and shoot them and thereby remove the dimples via fire-forming, or would that be an unsafe gamble?
Mad 4 Mausers		#3	[-]
Posts: 617 (06/17/08 08:27 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post
WVchuck		#4	[-]
Posts: 10912 (06/17/08 09:02 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	As soon as you shoot them, it'll press the dimples out really fast! There shouldn't be any adverse effect on the brass nor safety of the shooter. But do so at your own risk. Disclaimer of liability comment
mauserand9mm		#5	[-]
Posts: 1021 (06/17/08 11:10 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Even if the brass did split at the dimple when you fired it (not likely though) I doubt that the gases would flow back toward the bolt face since the rest of the case would seal the chamber anyway. I've had partial (almost complete) head separations in 8x57 and didn't notice anything unusual at the time of firing. Mind you I do occassionaly experience some gas from the steel cased Romanian ex-mil 8mm. When this happens the extracted case has powder marks right to the case head - obviously didn't expand properly to seal the chamber.
WesinMI		#6	[-]
Posts: 1625 (06/18/08 01:42 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	When lubing the cases for full length sizing any case, it helps to wipe the neck area off with a cloth/absorbent paper towel just before inserting it into the case holder. This will prevent these dents as they are caused by too much lube and always occur on the neck area. They are harmless unless affecting the bullet seating and and will fire out when the case is fired.
mauserand9mm		#7	[-]
Posts: 1022 (06/18/08 06:33 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Actually that's a point I'd overlooked. I don't use "wet" lube on the neck at all because it gets squeezed down the side of the neck (when it is run through the die) and into the shoulder where is causes the dents. I roll the case body only on the lube pad and then dip the case neck into a small container of graphite powder - this will put a small coating on the outside of the neck and, more importantly, the inside of the neck too. Slightly too much lube on the body shouldn't be a problem and it's better than the potential hassle of not enough. Last Edited By: mauserand9mm 06/18/08 06:37 PM. Edited 1 times.
Mad 4 Mausers	Another Reload Challenge	#8	[-]
Posts: 625 (06/21/08 12:12 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Another reloading problem was encountered: The Lee bullet seater also crimps the brass to the bullet. I was keen on making the crimp solid, so I gave the ram a bit of a "bump" or slam at the end of the stroke, thinking that this would do the trick. Turns out, that was not a good idea, since it produces a collar that rises above the normal contour of the brass' neck, which prevents the bolt from closing and causes the bullet to jam in the chamber. Picture below shows this "collar" (bottom round) aside a normally fashioned 8X56R round. The cure is NOT to put any extra pressure on the ram at the end of its stroke. The Lee device does the crimping job very nicely without any extra effort.
Mountain Doctor		#9	[-]
Posts: 2591 (06/21/08 12:55 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Back out the crimping part of the crimping/seating die 1/4 turn while keeping the bullet seating portion from turning and you'll be right on the money. The crimp is caused hydraulically by the pressure on the lubricant while sizing. It's a learning process, that's for sure!
WVchuck		#10	[-]
Posts: 10926 (06/21/08 07:51 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Don't try to chamber or shoot the one with the extra rolled neck. Pull the bullet, save the powder and carefully try to resize the neck and make sure it looks OK (compare it to a regular case) and do over. If it doesn't, pop the primer and put it in the scrap brass bucket. Maybe try to seat your bullet just a little deeper, with less cannelure showing, that should help with the brass crimping a little more easily.
Vladymere		#11	[-]
Posts: 666 (06/21/08 08:04 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Bolt action rifles generaly don't need a crimp. Vlad
Mad 4 Mausers		#12	[-]
Posts: 626 (06/21/08 03:02 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	WVchuck, I pulled the bullets, removed the powder and re-sized, which of course included the removal of the primer. That smoothed out the "collar" and I've reloaded the cases.
Japlmg		#13	[-]
Posts: 266 (06/21/08 04:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Make sure to trim the cases to a uniform length. If you do not trim the brass, you will have a heck of a time getting that taper crimp die to work correctly and repeatably.
WVchuck		#14	[-]
Posts: 10928 (06/21/08 04:44 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Glad it resized properly for you. I've had that happen and it's a 50-50 chance on the case collapsing in the die. I forgot to mention removing the decapping rod. sorry about that.
Mad 4 Mausers		#15	[-]
Posts: 628 (06/21/08 06:30 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	WVchuck, I'm relatively new at this reloading business and now see what you're saying: I could have avoided having to re-prime the cases had I removed the decapping rod. Cool, I'll remember that. Thank you.
WVchuck		#16	[-]
Posts: 10929 (06/21/08 07:40 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The pain about removing the decapping pin on the Lee dies is getting it back in. It takes three hands, one to hold the pin in position, and two to tighten the wrenches. The risk of resizing with a live primer is setting it off from the inside out. I've done it before and it is unsettling to say the least. It can blow out parts of your die set. With mine, it blew off the tip of the decapping pin when the shell collapsed and the ram slammed the case into the pin. I was resizing 6.5 Swede into 7.5 MAS. But, with that stupid mishap, I ended up with a resizer tool that worked perfectly for resizing primed 6.5 brass into 7.5 MAS ammo. Your neck diameter will be incredibly tight for the bullet without the expander section that is above the decapping pin. After you resize without it, put the pin in place and at least run the necks through carefully.
Mad 4 Mausers		#17	[-]
Posts: 631 (06/27/08 03:55 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I shall take your advice. Thank you.
1bolo		#18	[-]
Posts: 473 (07/02/08 06:22 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Didn't see this mentioned... If you are going to crimp,all cases must be trimmed to same length after sizing lest you get more buggered up at the mouth when seating/crimping. John Am Yisrael chai!