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My Recent Posts · (08/04/08

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I have two questions. The first one concerns my C & R. If I have owned a particular rifle before I ever applied for a C & R license, and I sell it to an out of state C & R holder, do I have to log it in?

Second question concerns an FFL. I just sold a modern rifle (Rem 700) to a person out of state. The FFL I'm sending it to is a class 07 licensee, which is a manufacturer's license. Are they legally able to do an FFL transfer, and recieve this rifle from me??

Thanks in advance

My Recent Posts · (08/04/08

Anything you owned/possessed prior to the license need not be entered into the book until you let it go somewhere else while you are licensed.
At that point, it must be logged in as a"Pre-License" C&R that is now being disposed of.

I can't help you with the second question without getting out the books. But I think an 07 can receive and transfer pieces. Look it up to make sure!
If you have a C&R license, you should have the books there from the feds with all of the laws, codes, etc. Too much work for me this evening.

It's a lot easier to ask on line, but when I was licensed, I found it greatly assuring to look it up myself just to confirm if the posted information was/is correct.

My Recent Posts · (08/04/08

One thing that you must always remember is that the books put out by the BATFE are only for the Federal level. The one big book describes individual states laws at the time of printing. Some states are more restrictive than the feds are. So it is best to check around. And also remember that a lot of dealers have their own interpretation of the laws and they like to cover their heinies. Like Big 5 will not honor a C&R License. I have whipped out mine, but still had to fill in the form 4473 to purchase a C&R rifle from them. With the laws constantly changing in some states, I can see why they want to be on the safe side.
Curt

My Recent Posts · (08/06/08

The 07 holder should know the answer to your second question, after all, he is the FFL holder so he should know what he can and cannot do.
All the rifles I have in my BB were bought on 4473s because it seems like every time I find one I want, the shop selling it does not want to fool with taking a C&R license. I have yet to buy one on my C&R and I just sent in my 3rd renewal. Pitty isn't it?
Oh well, it still saves a ton of money using the dealer discounts offered by many.

My Recent Posts · (11/16/08

I have to question loging guns purchased before you have your C&R. The regulations state you have a certian number of days to log a purchase into your bound book. This would be impossible to comply with on a gun you bought 5 years ago. I also recall asking this question to a BATF agent at a gun show in Kansas City Mo last year and was told if you had the gun before you had the C&R, it did not go in the bound book. Could you tell me where in the regulations this is stated?

My Recent Posts · (11/16/08

Just double checked the BATF website. Pruchase must be recorded by the end of business on the day after it is recieved. I could find nothing about loging any gun owned BEFORE you had the C&R. I sure would like to know what I am missing here. I defnately want to follow the rules to the letter of the law.

My Recent Posts · (11/16/08

If you owned anything C&R prior to having the license, it doens't have to go in the book unless you trade or sell it off while you are licensed. At that point, it goes in the book as going out to whomever you're selling/trading it off to. I would indicate those as being pre-C&R license in your disposition.
I can't tell you where it is in the regs.

My Recent Posts · (11/16/08

The regulation states that the holder of a C&R license must log the acquisition and disposition of all qualifying firearms in the bound book. You may not have been able to log one owned prior to licensure, but you certainly can log it out.
Tom

My Recent Posts · (11/16/08

Just read the regulation again. Can find nothing about previously owned guns. Looked at sample of bound book. You have to have something loged in before you can log it out. The timing does not allow for previous purchases to be loged in. Somone has to tell me specificaly where this is written in the regulations. I had conversations with a couple of other C&R holders at a local gun show this weekend. Nobody has heard of this. Again, I want to follow the rules but somone has to show me the rule first. I have read the material that came with the liscense when I got it and review it whenever a question comes up. I have never heard of this one.

My Recent Posts · (11/16/08

"....disposition of qualifying firearms." Pretty clear.

The ATF auditor who went through my books in 2004 agreed with this as well. You do what you want.

Tom

My Recent Posts · (11/17/08

I have always operated under the belief that firearms owned prior to being licensed do not go into the bound book. However, if you dispose of one, then it needs to be logged in as "from prior collection" or words to that affect and then logged out to the person taking new ownership of it.

If it is from a prior collection, no dates, or where you got it needs to be entered.

I hope I have been doing this right.
Curt

My Recent Posts · (11/17/08

in one of them books is a bunch of questions and answers,it's in there. jwr

My Recent Posts · (11/17/08

It stood up to audit in 2004.

My Recent Posts · (11/18/08

The regulation you are looking for is Section 478.125(f) of the Code of Federal Regulations...

§ 478.125(f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics.

Are you a licensed collector? Are you disposing of a C&R firearm? If so, then you need to enter the disposition into your bound book.

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Author	Comment
vintagemc313	C & R, and general FFL legality question	Lead	[-]
Posts: 33 (08/04/08 10:58 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I have two questions. The first one concerns my C & R. If I have owned a particular rifle before I ever applied for a C & R license, and I sell it to an out of state C & R holder, do I have to log it in? Second question concerns an FFL. I just sold a modern rifle (Rem 700) to a person out of state. The FFL I'm sending it to is a class 07 licensee, which is a manufacturer's license. Are they legally able to do an FFL transfer, and recieve this rifle from me?? Thanks in advance
WVchuck		#1	[-]
Posts: 11190 (08/04/08 05:26 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Anything you owned/possessed prior to the license need not be entered into the book until you let it go somewhere else while you are licensed. At that point, it must be logged in as a"Pre-License" C&R that is now being disposed of. I can't help you with the second question without getting out the books. But I think an 07 can receive and transfer pieces. Look it up to make sure! If you have a C&R license, you should have the books there from the feds with all of the laws, codes, etc. Too much work for me this evening. It's a lot easier to ask on line, but when I was licensed, I found it greatly assuring to look it up myself just to confirm if the posted information was/is correct.
m1 talker		#2	[-]
Posts: 5997 (08/04/08 07:16 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	One thing that you must always remember is that the books put out by the BATFE are only for the Federal level. The one big book describes individual states laws at the time of printing. Some states are more restrictive than the feds are. So it is best to check around. And also remember that a lot of dealers have their own interpretation of the laws and they like to cover their heinies. Like Big 5 will not honor a C&R License. I have whipped out mine, but still had to fill in the form 4473 to purchase a C&R rifle from them. With the laws constantly changing in some states, I can see why they want to be on the safe side. Curt
BiggBore		#3	[-]
Posts: 41 (08/06/08 12:12 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The 07 holder should know the answer to your second question, after all, he is the FFL holder so he should know what he can and cannot do. All the rifles I have in my BB were bought on 4473s because it seems like every time I find one I want, the shop selling it does not want to fool with taking a C&R license. I have yet to buy one on my C&R and I just sent in my 3rd renewal. Pitty isn't it? Oh well, it still saves a ton of money using the dealer discounts offered by many. Join the N.R.A.
slumlord44.britishmilitari...		#4	[-]
Posts: 4 (11/16/08 02:27 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have to question loging guns purchased before you have your C&R. The regulations state you have a certian number of days to log a purchase into your bound book. This would be impossible to comply with on a gun you bought 5 years ago. I also recall asking this question to a BATF agent at a gun show in Kansas City Mo last year and was told if you had the gun before you had the C&R, it did not go in the bound book. Could you tell me where in the regulations this is stated?
slumlord44.britishmilitari...		#5	[-]
Posts: 5 (11/16/08 02:39 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Just double checked the BATF website. Pruchase must be recorded by the end of business on the day after it is recieved. I could find nothing about loging any gun owned BEFORE you had the C&R. I sure would like to know what I am missing here. I defnately want to follow the rules to the letter of the law.
WVchuck		#6	[-]
Posts: 11465 (11/16/08 09:32 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If you owned anything C&R prior to having the license, it doens't have to go in the book unless you trade or sell it off while you are licensed. At that point, it goes in the book as going out to whomever you're selling/trading it off to. I would indicate those as being pre-C&R license in your disposition. I can't tell you where it is in the regs. Last Edited By: WVchuck 11/16/08 09:36 AM. Edited 1 times.
trautert		#7	[-]
Posts: 5157 (11/16/08 12:38 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The regulation states that the holder of a C&R license must log the acquisition and disposition of all qualifying firearms in the bound book. You may not have been able to log one owned prior to licensure, but you certainly can log it out. Tom Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
slumlord44.britishmilitari...		#8	[-]
Posts: 6 (11/16/08 11:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Just read the regulation again. Can find nothing about previously owned guns. Looked at sample of bound book. You have to have something loged in before you can log it out. The timing does not allow for previous purchases to be loged in. Somone has to tell me specificaly where this is written in the regulations. I had conversations with a couple of other C&R holders at a local gun show this weekend. Nobody has heard of this. Again, I want to follow the rules but somone has to show me the rule first. I have read the material that came with the liscense when I got it and review it whenever a question comes up. I have never heard of this one.
trautert		#9	[-]
Posts: 5158 (11/16/08 11:49 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"....disposition of qualifying firearms." Pretty clear. The ATF auditor who went through my books in 2004 agreed with this as well. You do what you want. Tom Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
m1 talker		#10	[-]
Posts: 6228 (11/17/08 09:59 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have always operated under the belief that firearms owned prior to being licensed do not go into the bound book. However, if you dispose of one, then it needs to be logged in as "from prior collection" or words to that affect and then logged out to the person taking new ownership of it. If it is from a prior collection, no dates, or where you got it needs to be entered. I hope I have been doing this right. Curt
jwr747		#11	[-]
Posts: 95 (11/17/08 08:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	in one of them books is a bunch of questions and answers,it's in there. jwr
trautert		#12	[-]
Posts: 5159 (11/17/08 08:24 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It stood up to audit in 2004. Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
Amendment II		#13	[-]
Posts: 1601 (11/18/08 02:39 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The regulation you are looking for is Section 478.125(f) of the Code of Federal Regulations... § 478.125(f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. Are you a licensed collector? Are you disposing of a C&R firearm? If so, then you need to enter the disposition into your bound book. __________________________ "Oro En Paz, Fierro En Guerra" um, yeah, right.

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C & R, and general FFL legality question

C & R, and general FFL legality question

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