New purchase; M38 or M44?

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Ed Novak	New purchase; M38 or M44?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1642 (08/05/08 10:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I am new to the MN's; have an M91/30 and an M39. Looking at possible purchase of an M38 or M44. I don't particularly like the bayonet "issue" wrt the M44 (sighted with bayonet extended, as I understand). Also understand that the rear sight on the M38 is superior. One or the other; not both at this time so will appreciate users' experience and comments. TIA.
Pahtu		#1	[-]
Posts: 2054 (08/05/08 10:17 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would buy the M38 - The mod's on gunboards say no more M38's to be found for import(as of yet anyway...) Could be the end of M38 importation for a while/ever.... Try to find one with a decent bore - I looked at several before I found one with a decent bore.....Now I have two M38's & the vintage one has a superior bore than my refurb M38 =+) When or if you get the bug to own a M44, they should be available for a long time.... pahtu.
Hlavinka		#2	[-]
Posts: 4 (08/06/08 07:27 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'd personally go with the M38, go with the one that you like the best. Don't let the fact that M44 is sighted for the bayonet extended bother you. I adjusted windage on the front sights of mine to shoot to POA with the bayonets folded. I don't see a difference on the rear sights between M44's and M38's, I think they're the same sight.
zeebill	Neither!	#3	[-]
Posts: 3252 (08/06/08 08:15 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would hunt around and find an 91/59! I have just fallen in love with these little carbines. They all seem to have great triggers and most shoot really great too. That way you don't have the bayonet problem of the M44 and the hunt for an M38 in the right stock (not an M44 stock) and the counter bore and poor bore problems of a normally found M38. Just my preference in a carbine length Mosin that's all! Bill
m1 talker		#4	[-]
Posts: 5999 (08/06/08 09:48 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Zeebill took the words out of my mouth. I have been collecting Mosin-Nagants for nearly a dozen years now and still do not have an M-38, as allthe ones I have seen were in pretty poor shape. I have several M-44's and they are fun, but I also have several 91/59's and they all are like brand new. I have never seen a 91/59 with a bad bore as a matter of fact. I just can't understand why they seem to be neglected by some. I get the impression at times that people either choose to ignore them or they don't even know they exist. I bought all mine at Big 5 when they had them on the shelves. The triggers in them to be a lot better than most M-44's that I have compared them with and they are all good shooters with good ammo. Curt
Skeyed		#5	[-]
Posts: 3883 (08/06/08 11:11 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have no M38 or M44. I would not trade my 91/59 for either. A 4 inch group at 100 yds, with iron sights and only my glasses. What more can I say. skd
Pahtu		#6	[-]
Posts: 2055 (08/06/08 11:23 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"I just can't understand why they seem to be neglected by some. " I was curious about that also. Some serious collectors have turned up their nose at 91-59's. I guess they figure the carbines do not have a legit service record. Many of those folks are collectors & not shooters. Shooters prize a shiny sharp barrel - Collectors who are not shooters could care less. I am usually both, I like a carbine/rifle with a great bore & a rifle/carbine that is interesting/collectable. The 91-59's are an unusual piece & make great shooters. Pahtu.
gandog56		#7	[-]
Posts: 61 (08/06/08 01:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would hunt around and find an 91/59! I have just fallen in love with these little carbines. They all seem to have great triggers and most shoot really great too. That way you don't have the bayonet problem of the M44 and the hunt for an M38 in the right stock (not an M44 stock) and the counter bore and poor bore problems of a normally found M38. Just my preference in a carbine length Mosin that's all! Bill How can you even say that? My 91/30 shoots 3 inches to the left if I don't have the bayonet attached. I suppose I could go to the bother of adjusting the front sight to shoot without the bayonet. Is the correct stock for an M38 really a necessity if you are looking for a shooter only? Yeah, I own all three, and my best shooting one is my M44...with the bayonet extended, followed by the M38, then the 91/30, even though it's longer. Go ahead, make my day. Last Edited By: gandog56 08/06/08 01:11 PM. Edited 1 times.
zeebill		#8	[-]
Posts: 3255 (08/08/08 06:34 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	How can I say what? Who even mentioned a 91/30 other than to say he already has one? He says he doesn't want to get into the issue of an extended bayonet at the range so that kind of knocks the M44. If you look at as many M38's as I have there are darn few that are not counter bored and still after that process have don't have poor or shakey bores. I am a shooter collector and I like the proper stock for an M38 hence that comment. I suggested a 91/59 because he is just starting out and may not even know about a 91/59 existing. As stated by others above they are ignored for the most part by collectors. A careful shooter should always take the time to adjust the sight be it for a bayonet not being extended or just getting the rifle to hit where you want it to is immaterial to my way of thinking. Maybe before questioning why someone would say something you should completely read a post and then question the posters logic. Bill Last Edited By: zeebill 08/08/08 06:36 AM. Edited 1 times.
Ed Novak		#9	[-]
Posts: 1643 (08/08/08 08:26 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've done some reading in the past 3 days; I see that the M91/59 is preferable, in many ways to the M38 but I cannot find an M91/59 listed available to me on my usual site haunts. Auctions? I prefer to deal one-on-one with someone who has what I want. I live in northern MN and the local availability of such an "esoteric" item as the M91/59 is likely to be a million-to-one thing. Any "hints" as to the location of good+ M91/59s for my search will be appreciated. I sincerely appreciate the input given in this string; thanks to all who posted.
gandog56		#10	[-]
Posts: 63 (08/08/08 08:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	91/59 seems a rarity around me, too. Zeebill, I read something in your post that wasn't there. Sorry. But what M44 bayonet problem? I shoot mine bayonet extended....no problem. It still shoots better than my M38 and my 91/30. Go ahead, make my day.
Skeyed		#11	[-]
Posts: 3886 (08/08/08 08:56 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ed Novak. There are several gun/pawn shops in my area that I frequent on a regular schedule. There are 8 such stores within a 35 mile radios of me I'll look around. I also have some one on my end who will take care of the transfer for little or no cost. Make sure you post when you get one, so I can stop looking or get the one I find for myself. I would buy another one if I found another one as good as the one I have.skd
Ed Novak		#12	[-]
Posts: 1644 (08/08/08 11:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks, Skeyed. I have an 03/C&R license. I appreciate your interest and help in this.
Skeyed		#13	[-]
Posts: 3887 (08/09/08 12:23 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have noticed this time of year, "just before hunting season", most all the gun shops/stores in my area come up with a few milsurps. Whether it is out of storage or some trade in or one out of pawn. Out of 8 that I have got from pawn shops in the past two and half years I have only got stung one time. And yes, it was the beast, P14. Finally got it to shooting fairly good. The place where I got my 91/59 and the K31 is a fair man to deal with. $69 for the 91/59 about two years ago and $219 for the K31 about two months ago. The K31 is the smoothest operating, best balanced rifle I have. And shoots true. skd
NotPC		#14	[-]
Posts: 5413 (08/09/08 11:13 AM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If you prefer face to face, continue to check your local shops and papers (do you have an area "ad/trader paper"?). Allan's Armory had the last known large quantity of M91/59's and he may still have some - even if they are not currently advertised. E-mail him. www.allans-armory.com I think Century recently recently offered some "cracked stock specials" on them. Trouble is that those cracks can be a minor split in a handguard to a very severe crack. Often folks who order 3 or 5 can put at least one good one together form the lot. This process doesn't initially appeal to everyone, but as they dry up, it may have possibilities. You can also post on the "want to buy" forum here and on gunboards. Regards.
Ed Novak		#15	[-]
Posts: 1645 (08/09/08 06:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for the replies. I sent a msg to Allan - no 91/59s now but I am now on his mailing list. "ad/trader" paper - none local to me. Frankly, I don't know enough about the 91/59 to feel comfortable buying locally if one such rifle was offered to me. "Cracked stock specials" - I want a really decent rifle from the git-go; life is too short at my age to be fussing about with a "fix-it" sort of rifle. Again, thanks for the replies, help and direction. I'll post when I have the rifle in hand.
zeebill		#16	[-]
Posts: 3257 (08/10/08 07:35 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	No problems on the miss reading! I have done that often myself and I think more often with the fact that I am getting older and a bit crotchety I guess too. The problem with the bayonet shooting extended is some of us go to hunting club ranges or a range where there is an attending range master. I use to shoot at a state range and they frankly frown or flat refuse to let you run around the place with a bayonet on or even worse in their eyes extended. Even the local state range here in WV, which is unattended, you get a bunch of weird looks that makes you think they want to kill you before you multiply or that you are a representative of the local terrorist club if you fix a bayonet on a rifle. Plus like I said I don't even shoot my M44's with one extended and find they shoot OK by me so I find the bayonet unnecessary for any rifle at the range. One thing I don't like about an M44 is the fact that the bayonet is always there unless you modify the rifle. Ed check on David's collectibles, or what ever the proper name is, he is one of the sponsors. He at one time had 91/59's and yeah in certain areas they can be hard to find. I will check a source I have here locally and whoever it was that got the one for under $100 did very well. I see them at shows but usually around $125 or so. I saw a really nice one in Pa. awhile back and almost pulled the string but I think I have 4 of them as of now. It in all truth to my way of thinking is the only real soviet carbine that I can shoot worth a darn and with my long arms like and find comfortable to hold. Things like an AK or SKS are not my favorites because I feel like spiderman with no where to put these darn long arms of mine when shooting them. The one SKS I own has one of those 3 inch rubber butt pads on it so I can hold and shoot the thing! Well good luck and I too will check around here. Ornery old zeebill!
ROGER50BMG		#17	[-]
Posts: 2 (08/10/08 08:05 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	ANYONE HAVE PICS OF A 91/59? WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A 38 AND A 91/59 ? I HAVE A 38,44, AND A FEW 91/30S BUT HAVENT HEARD OF THE 91/59.
m1 talker		#18	[-]
Posts: 6009 (08/10/08 08:10 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Gee, it must be a difference between WV and Northern Idaho, but people here love to see my rifles with the bayonets attached. Out of my collection, the one that gets the most rants and raves is my U.S. Model of 1917 made by Winchester and its bayonet. Especially if there are young shooters or kids with their parents at the range, as I know I am in for giving another history lesson, which I love to do. I am constantly amazed at how many of the younger crowd (meaning younger than my 59 years) have never heard of my childhood hero, Alvin C. York and what he did on October 8, 1918. Also when asked how many ever heard of Audie Murphy, I normally get blank stares, but once in a while their dad will pipe up about him being a movie star! But I always figured that a bayonet was an important part of any main battle rifle setup, just like ammo on stripper clips, and as far as collecting these rifles, the bayonets were mandatory to have in the collection, whether you shoot with them on the rifle or not. To me, it is like a spare tire on your car. With some of the extremely high price of tires for some vehicles nowadays, I see a lot of people are forgoing even owning a spare tire. But for me, having grown up with recap tires and frequent blowouts going down the highway, not having a spare tire is something I simply can not live with. But to each, their own, when it comes to shooting with or without the bayonets attached and at the ready. I also find that I am a lot less shakey with the bayonet on the rifle, as it adds weight to the muzzle end of the rifle. Just one word of important advice, however. If you shoot corrosive ammo, like I almost always do, and you have been shooting with the bayonet attached, make darn sure that you wipe the bayonet down with water or something to remove the corrosive salts that will accumulate on it from the powder gasses. Clean it just like you do your chamber, bolt head and barrel for shooting corrosive ammo. I have seen too many bayonets that had rust forming on them because the shooter forgot to clean them also when doing the corrosive ammo cleanup. Curt
m1 talker		#19	[-]
Posts: 6010 (08/10/08 08:19 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	ROGER50BMG- The 91/59 is almost identical to the M-38. I think there is something like one half inch in total length difference between the two, but I do not have any M-38's to compare to. I have been looking for a good M-38 for a number of years and I always get excited when going to a gun show and I spot on someones table what appears to be one, but only dissapointed to find out that it is another 91/59. The M-38's I have seen over the years have always been pieces of junk, shot out bores, counter boring as far back as the receiver (!) and crappy beat up stocks that looked like they were dragged behind a tank. On the other hand, nearly all the M91/59's I have seen have been in almost if not perfect pristine condition, with excellent bores and good looking stocks. 91/59's are not as common on the market as they were just ten years ago, but you can still find them at gunshows or other collectors who want to prune down their collections. Just open your eyes and look around. Big 5 seemed to have flooded the market with them a decade ago, selling pristine ones for something like $89.95 or $69.95 on sale. That is where I got mine. Curt
Ed Novak		#20	[-]
Posts: 1646 (08/10/08 12:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Zeebill: Thanks for the site hint. Isn't it odd that adding/extending a bayonet at the range puts a different perspective on the rifle? Or, maybe a different perspective about what the shooter's motives are? A loaded rifle is one hell of a lot more dangerous than a bayonetted rifle, methinks. Curt: "... I always get excited... only disappointed to find out that it is another 91/59." Arrrrgh!