What do you call "acceptable" accuracy for a Mosin?

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altair4		#21	[-]
Posts: 41 (09/27/08 01:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'll let you guys know how it goes for me. With the barrel as clean as I can get it I'm curious where the first 5 shots are going to end up. I intend to start with 5 rounds of the Winchester White box 180gr SP followed by 5 rounds of the surplus Bulgarian light ball 10/53 at 50 yards to warm up. Other things I want to evaluate are the point of impact (POI) of my Hornady 150gr SP's compared to the Bulgarian ball and if there is any accuracy advantage between 4350 and Varget. If all goes well I want to give the 200 yard steel pigs a try. At this point for cleaning I alternate between patches soaked in Hoppes and Remington bore cleaner using an 8mm jag. For some reason, the deep rifling, I go through quite a few bronze brushes, lasting about x100 passes before they poop out.
Ed Novak		#22	[-]
Posts: 1687 (09/27/08 01:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"Clean bore", to me, simply means clean to the point that with, say, Hoppes #9 and a nylon brush, clean patches are returned and I consider a gray patch a clean patch. I "scrub" every new-to-me rifle with all sorts of copper solvents/foams/bronze brushes, etc. and from that point on, the bore is treated with hot water/some solvent/nylon brush and lots of patches, primarily to remove corrosive salts unless/until I see a marked deterioration in grouping and then its back to some level of the "scrubbing" thing. I agree with stantheman that some amount of shooting is often necessary to provide some level of confidence wrt how well the rifle will typically shoot. I don't see the MN type rifles as potential "target rifles" so I don't treat them as having precision-accuracy potential. The "grunt" in the field maintained his rifle as "clean" with solvents available, water, etc. and proved it clean by shooting (at) somebody. At the range, I routinely use a Bore Snake every 10 or so rounds to remove light fouling and that works well enough for me. I will appreciate folks posting their experiences in shooting from a "clean bore", as defined by me and anyone who'd like to post their usual group experience from a fouled bore as well. No great experiment being developed here, just a curiosity on my part since I've decades of experience with other rifles and recently became an MN fan. Thanks.
Pahtu		#23	[-]
Posts: 2091 (09/27/08 10:27 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This is acceptable accuracy from a Mosin. M39 Tikka, 100 pahtu paces(I am a short feller... ) Albanian brass cased ammo. Pahtu.
Ed Novak		#24	[-]
Posts: 1688 (09/28/08 03:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Pahtu wrote: This is acceptable accuracy from a Mosin. M39 Tikka, 100 pahtu paces(I am a short feller... ) Albanian brass cased ammo. Pahtu. Pahtu: I will be very pleased if any of my rifles will group as well as that. "Pahtu Paces" - ha, ha. I know what you mean. I am 145cm height; a woman measuring me for trousers once said, loudly enough for everyone to hear "my God, your waist is longer than your legs is."
altera6		#25	[-]
Posts: 2 (09/29/08 10:56 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	OK, I made it out to the range Sunday for a couple hours, total CHAOS. I got there early but it was filling up, and for some reason everybody had problems setting there targets at 100 yards without mixing things up causing cross firing. Glad I'm not going deer hunting this year since I'd rather not be in the woods with those cross-eyed fools. Any way I finally got set up at 100 yards. From a cold clean barrel I decided to try two of my reloads. 1) From the Hodgdon webpage; WW case, WLR primer, Hornady 150gr (.312) SP, 48gr VARGET. 2) From an article by Mike Venturino in Handloader; WW case, WLR primer, Hornady 150gr (.312) SP, 52gr IMR 4350. At 100 the VARGET loads grouped into 3.5" just above and to the right of the point of aim while the 4350 loads went into 4.5" just below and to the right. Since the Varget loads seamed to have the proper trajectory for a 200 yard zero I took on the steel pigs. Aiming dead on in elevation with a slight bias to the left in azimuth I was greeted with a satisfying CLANG 5 out of 10 shots. For whatever reason my surplus Bulgarian light ball 10/53 shot 4" to 5" high and 2" to 3" to the left of the point of aim and grouped into 5". For the most part grouping was consistent from load to load with no stringing. Going forward I want to shoot a larger sample of the various surplus ammos on the market and continue experimenting with reloads. The Hornady bullets have the largest diameter of bullets in this class at (.312) while Speer bullets run (.311). So I'll probably try working up loads with Speer .311 150gr bullets and VARGET to see what happens. The bore was kind of dark on this carbine when I got it but the more I shoot and clean it the fewer rough spots I feel running a tight patch through, along with taking on a nice shine. Oh, I've come up with a name for my carbine too, The Steel Pig Hammer. All in all it was a great being out in the sun doing something I enjoy!
ares7667	acuracy	#26	[-]
Posts: 121 (10/11/08 02:08 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Most of mine shoot well. Off the bench using surplus ammo you should get anywhere from 2" to 6" at 100 yds depending on you. I got lucky with 2 of mine. I tend to free float the barrel. Looking for wood touching the magazine. the mag touching the action etc. That cleans them right up.
OldIronMan		#27	[-]
Posts: 1245 (10/11/08 06:56 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have a 1943 Izhevsk M91/30 that's very sensitive to the adjustment of the action screws. When the tang screw is cranked down tight but the front screw is just gently snugged, the barrel free floats and it shoots great! If the front screw's tight, the barrel touches the stock at the tip and sprays bullets. I use blue Loctite to hold the proper torque. "A cheerful heart is good medicine."
m1 talker		#28	[-]
Posts: 6160 (10/11/08 07:27 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It really is too hard to call. I have blamed the rifles on poor accuracy before and then found some different ammo in the bottom of my shooting bag. So I tried that for the heck of it, as it was such a nice afternoon to send projectiles down range. Boy, was I ever blown away when I went to inspect the target! I was shooting silver tipped ammo, that I think was Czech for most of the shooting, but the stuff I had in the bottom of the bag was Hungarian. My interest was perked up, so the following Saturday, I took Bulgarian, Albanian, Czech, Hungarian and I belive Polish with me to the range. You could very definately see the difference in the ammo and how it made a marked difference on the target. But that was with only one M91/30. I have since tried testing the same ammo types with other rifles and some did not care the slightest and some did show a little bit of difference, but not so much as the first rifle I mentioned. Curt Last Edited By: m1 talker 10/11/08 07:38 PM. Edited 1 times.
Carl Gustav		#29	[-]
Posts: 3148 (10/11/08 08:30 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If it works out, I'll do some testing this Thursday while acting as range supervisor unless it gets too crowded and I can't shoot. With all the Mosins I have I could spend years testing for accuracy. I must have at least a dozen types of surplus 7.62 x 54r ammo, too. It would be an enjoyable retirement project but with the current world financial situation I'll probably never be able to retire. Carl
stantheman1986	Accuracy	#30	[-]
Posts: 5157 (10/12/08 10:05 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Oh yeah, I have run the whole spectrum when it comes to Mosin accuracy......I have a minty bored M39 that shoots so well with Hungarian heavy ball,that this rifle puts groups on paper that people can't believe came out of an iron-sighted rifle, let alone an"old military" rifle! With a non-gunsmith scope mount, this rifle would be a force to be reckoned with at the range. I have also, just for fun, fired a 91/59 and an M91 that basically had no rifling left in the barrel. These rifles would send tumbling slugs downrange and the few that would hit the paper at 100 yards would leave sideways bullet shaped holes in the paper. Needless to say I sold both of these as parts gun/projects to a local gun dealer. I usually crank the action screws really snug on all my Mosins, but I have noticed that on M91's some of them don't like it when you crank the barrel bands really tight. On most of them I make them just snug enough and replaced the broken band retaining "nubs" with little brass screws. In most cases they shot well.....except for my one M91 that has about a 100 lb. trigger pull, feels more like firing a crossbow then a rifle, I kind of just point it and then heave the trigger back and hope for the best. I have tried brass shims in the barrel channel and usually it made no effect on accuracy. One of my 91/30's, a 1939 Tula refurb, has an average "good" bore and inexpicably just shoots awesome with any kind of ammo, while others with better bores don't perform as well......could be due to this rifle having a little bit tighter of a bore, better stock fit, etc.
george1108	MOSIN ACCURACY	#31	[-]
Posts: 13 (10/15/08 09:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have (2) SKY M39's that will shoot -1moa at 100 yds with czech light, (bxn 65)which is about the best milsurp I have found. I have gotten these results several times with ihis rifle/ammo combination. To be fair I have to say that the lighting conditions were near perfect for these results. My other Finn's are under 2" at 100 yd and my 91/30's will do -4" . I prefer the sights on the 91/30's to the M39 as my 58 year old eyes like the larger U of the russian rear sight. I prefer the better trigger on the M39.
mercuryman68850		#32	[-]
Posts: 381 (10/18/08 12:18 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My M39 Sako will shoot minute of pop bottle all day long, and often is able to take off the cap, which is what I aim at. It is an excellent shooter. I have fed it Bulgarian or Hungarian (cant remember now, whichever one came with the strippers), and my reloads. POI doesnt seem to change much. Now one 91/30 I have, shot Very very well when I got it. So well, I wanted to convert it to sniper status. I mean it was shooting like my M39. Then I cleaned the bore heavily with copper solvent. Now it shoots about a 4-5" group. I wonder if the copper fouling isnt sealing all the little burrs and pits, making a semi polished surface in the barrel, making better accuracy. DM http://www.freewebs.com/daltonmasterson/ www.runniron.com Guns, collect the whole set. 44 spoke, and it sent lead and smoke, and 17 inches of flame.
Carl Gustav	Test results at 50 yards	#33	[-]
Posts: 3152 (10/18/08 01:12 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	While playing range supervisor this past Thursday I was able to squeeze in some shooting time. I was shooting at 50 yards because of the size of my targets and without visual correction for my 62 year old eyes. Unless noted otherwise they were 5 shot groups with the lowest sight settings. Here are the results for what they are worth: M91/30 Yuogslavian ex-sniper with a very good bore and a minimal amount of muzzle wear: Albanian: 1 1/2", 3" above P.O.A Bulgarian heavy ball: 3 7/8", 3" above P.O.A. Czech steel case: 2 7/8", 1 1/2" above P.O.A M-39, 1968 dated. Based on rifle's appearance it's new. Albanian: 1 7/8", 5 1/4" above P.O.A. Bulgarian heavy ball: 2 1/4", 4@ 1 3/8", 6 3/4" above P.O.A. Czech steel case: 2 1/4", 5 1/2" above P.O.A. M-44 Russian dated 1946, excellent bore with no muzzle wear and original stock finish & cartouches Abanian: 1 3/16", 3" above P.O.A. with 300M sight setting Bulgarian heavy ball: 4", 2 1/2" below P.O.A. with 100M sight setting Czech steel case: 3 3/8" (10 rounds) with 6 @ 2 1/4", 300M sight setting The Albanian ammo wins in the accuracy department, the M-44 gets the best group, and the M-39 is the most consistent with all the ammo. For what it's worth. Carl
8point3		#34	[-]
Posts: 15 (10/18/08 07:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Barnaul 203 gr. soft point in the .311 dia. seems to work best for my M39's and the Silver Bear 203 gr. soft point in the .310 dia. seems to work best for the Russian 91/30's. I make the intial function test on rifles I buy at 25 yards with 3 shot groups and then move out to 100 yards.My most accurate M39's will usually group a clover leaf at 25 yards. The group distance from the red dot on the 25 yard target will also give me an idea of how high or low it will shoot at 100 yards. At 25 yards I can test different types of ammo and it will give me a good idea of what shoots best. I then swab the bore and move out to 100 yards and usually shoot 5 shot groups at a 2 inch red dot on cardboard tacked to a stand.Like some of the other shooters have mentioned, it's hard to see the target using iron sights with older eyes. My russian 91/30 with open sights will shoot a 5 shot group in about a 4 inch circle 5 inches high over the red dot. My scoped 91/30 will shoot 5 shots in about a 1 1/2 group and then move out to about a 4 inch group if I shot till the barrel get's hot. I need to pad the barrel channel near the muzzle when I get time to see if it helps the heat distortion. My M39's that shot clover leafs at 25 yards will usually shoot 5 shot groups in 1 to 2 inch circles with open sights if I can locate the fuzzy red dot on the target board at 100 yards.The M39's that group about a 1 inch circle at 25 will group about a 2 1/2 to 4 inch circle at 100.My 1969 no name with a scout mount and 4x32 EER scope will group 5 shots in about a 1 1/4 circle at 100 on a cold or warm barrel. The barrels on M39's are a little shorter and thicker,so I don't seem to have the heat distortion problem as with the scoped 91/30.With better eyes,different sights, or tuned handloads, I could probably tighten the 100 yards groups on some of the M39's with open sights.I have the dies for a 54R,the load data,and the press, I just need to find time to work some up.When I buy one, I always take it all the way down for cleaning,inspection,and headspace checks. I shim them so the barrel is just of the stock channel and shim for any back and forth movement. I replace any trigger parts that are worn,polish the contact areas, and lighten the trigger down to about a 3 to 4 lb. pull. That way if I have less than expected accuracy, it narrows it down to the barrel,barrel to stock contact,the ammo, or the shooter.I keep a record of each rifles groups at 25 and 100 yards, the ammo used, and the weather conditions the day I shot it. It comes in handy later on for a reference. I like the fun and challange of tuning up a surplus rifle that has the potential rather than just buy a modern rifle that will shoot moa right out of the box.
69396		#35	[-]
Posts: 780 (10/22/08 11:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Lately with the price of gas and the laziness of approaching six decades on the planet, I have been shooting at a nearby indoor 25 yard range. I have had two half inch groups-basically a jagged hole. Not surprisingly the first was with a 1945 Sako M39 with a very sharp bore. I later had an identical group out of a refurb 1934 Izhevsk 91/30 with a dark somewhat rough bore. Both with Czech silvertip. As noted previously rifles can have strong preferences. The 91/30 is just mediocre with other ammo. Years ago I did have one 100 yd group of just over one inch out of a 1942 VKT M39 with LVE softpoint ammo (bright green box). This rifle looks new but is counter-bored. I agree that half the fun is tinkering and trying different flavors of ammo.
gaweidert		#36	[-]
Posts: 643 (10/23/08 11:50 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well, I finally fot my 1943 Izhevsk Samco sniper up and running last weekend. Using Privi Partizan 150 grain SP ammo I was able to cover a three shot group with a dime at 50 yards. I would be happy with any of my MN's that would group 4" at 100 yards. My one fixer upper 91/30 that I got from a barrel 4 years ago is minute of pie plate at 50 yards. I really need to get it counterbored. My Finn M39's are definitely my best groups of shooters. Outward appearance seems to have no effect on how well they shoot. My two beaters shoot as well as my pretty one.