U.S. will replace M16 (M4 rifle) with a more reliable rifle

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bhp9	U.S. will replace M16 (M4 rifle) with a more reliable rifle	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1291 (10/20/08 02:29 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None According to "Gun Week" the U.S. is casting around for a cheaper replacement of their M4 rifle, which as proved unreliable in desert warfare. In a recent test the M4 came in dead last in the reliability department when tested against more modern assault rifles. Israel has also opted to retire the M16 in favor of their new plastic and stamped sheet metal rifle called the Tavor which can be pumped out way more cheaply than the more expensive M16. But of course this could take years as the U.S. drug its feet for years when they were thinking of replacing the 1911 pistol.
high speed cruise		#1	[-]
Posts: 2566 (10/20/08 02:41 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I vote for the K98!!!! M1 Garand!!!! Or an "accurized" AK!!! GREG
Mountain Doctor		#2	[-]
Posts: 3094 (10/20/08 04:29 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	After what I just read about the Tavor: http://www.defense-update.com/directory/tavor.htm Maybe we should get those? I sure want one!
Carl Gustav		#3	[-]
Posts: 3160 (10/20/08 07:31 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ugly beasts! Carl
FLAPJACKHAPPY		#4	[-]
Posts: 77 (10/21/08 12:05 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Looks like a rip off of a steyr aug, Which I had the honor of handling this last weekend very balanced and controllable weapon especially in full auto... Id say buy the Galils and issue them to our troops. though I thought that HK 416 was replacing the M4.
mh47		#5	[-]
Posts: 1233 (10/21/08 03:20 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Tavor sounds like a very useful weapon. Read through the article twice and could not find out one thing, though. What round does it fire?
Mountain Doctor		#6	[-]
Posts: 3097 (10/21/08 11:53 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've assumed it's 5.56 NATO, but I also did not see it in the article.
Bryan 45		#7	[-]
Posts: 2246 (10/21/08 01:35 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The gun mags have been saying for a little over 2 years that the Military is going to replace the M16 series. But, .GOV keeps buying more and more M4 carbines. There are some neat alternatives out there, but with the budget shortfalls the US is facing, I don't think we're going to see a purchase order for 7,000,000 new rifles.
tep0583		#8	[-]
Posts: 433 (10/21/08 02:15 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Mountain Doctor wrote: I've assumed it's 5.56 NATO, but I also did not see it in the article. Yep, 5.56 NATO.
dou 44		#9	[-]
Posts: 2243 (10/21/08 02:36 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	i rember when my unit got the a3's i helped unload and i saw the paper work price was $300 for each one.wish i could buy one for that price .that was late 90's or around 2000 i think
Mountain Doctor		#10	[-]
Posts: 3099 (10/21/08 03:06 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	dou 44 wrote: i rember when my unit got the a3's i helped unload and i saw the paper work price was $300 for each one.wish i could buy one for that price .that was late 90's or around 2000 i think Buy in bulk. If you bought 100,000 or so you could have matched the price!
Mountain Doctor		#11	[-]
Posts: 3102 (10/21/08 04:48 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	BTW, what's wrong with the M16 anyway? I thought all the bugs were worked out decades ago.
Smokepole50		#12	[-]
Posts: 1201 (10/21/08 06:51 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Other then SAND/DIRT I don't think anything is wrong with the M16. It is the M4 and 5.56 comb that is the problem. The 6.5 Grendel is the answer or maybe the AK65, a accurized 6.5 Grendel AK. Some of the guys on the Grendel forum have been working on it for awhile. How a 100gr bullet at 2600fps out of a 16" barrel sound? Smokepole50 Last Edited By: Smokepole50 10/21/08 06:53 PM. Edited 1 times.
Bryan 45		#13	[-]
Posts: 2249 (10/22/08 06:15 AM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I like the 6.5 in many ways. Much bigger bullet at medium velocity is certainly not a new idea, but it gets the job done. I've smoked some coyotes with the .223, but a 40-50 lb. animal is all I care to shoot w/ such a small round.
WALLBANGER	The IDI Tavor Rifle....	#14	[-]
Posts: 498 (10/22/08 08:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Isn't that the one that the troops carried in Star Ship Troopers?? ArtinSC all yaneed is love and a .45
acc8090		#15	[-]
Posts: 1472 (10/22/08 11:38 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	How about bring back the M14. If they want something cheap and reliable buy an AK!
skywarp989		#16	[-]
Posts: 3211 (10/22/08 11:56 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	There are not systematic problems with the M4 platform other than uneducated and isolated field complaints (which you will get with any weapon system) and internet/media hype. Bottom line is that the M4 works well enough that completely refitting the U.S. military is not cost effective and rather silly. It has its shortcomings, like any weapon, but it's put a lot of Hajis under the sand and will do so for many years before someone comes up with something VERY revolutionary that will change the face of modern warfare. Other than that, the M4/M16 is here to stay.
high speed cruise		#17	[-]
Posts: 2574 (10/23/08 02:41 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Come on guys! Everyone here knows that nothing can beat the firepower/mag capacity, reliability, compactness, simplicity, and ease of handling of the HAKIM rifle! Just admit it..........it is the best thing ever! GREG
bhp9		#18	[-]
Posts: 1292 (10/23/08 06:21 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I beg to differ . The m16 is no more reliable now than it was 40 plus years ago. The incident several years ago with the pretty little blonde who's entire squad was wipped out and or captured because every one of their M16' s jammed up while the insurgent's AK's worked just fine despite the fact that probably none of the AK's ever had a lick of maintenance, showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that the M16 should have been scrapped out years ago. At our range the no. 1 problem assault rifle is and always has been the M16/AR15. In a recent Guns & Ammo TV test even they admitted the gun runs best wet (polite term for drowning in oil). Problem is this is not possible in a desert environment. The sand, dust and burnt powder that this design sprays all over the action make it just about impossible to keep reliable under rough combat conditions. Even the Gov't had to buy very expensive LSA fluid to keep the gun running in the rain as the burnt powder would mix with the rain forming a glue like substance that would jam up the already jam prone rifle. I often wonder how many people got killed or captured because of this weapons 40 plus years of unreliability. I think anyone who has shot Nation match , as I have, where you are really shooting a large number of rounds and often under windy, dusty or rainy conditions knows that if this gun is not clean , very, very, clean and very, very, well lubed it just quits working. This had been my first hand experience with this gun.
Mountain Doctor		#19	[-]
Posts: 3109 (10/23/08 01:40 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Based on that, maybe we should go with the AK or Galil. The Galil would get the nod because it can use our existing cartridge, is generally more accurate, and more ergonomic than the usual AK. That said, I bet we will stick with the AR for much longer, perhaps decades. Maybe there is still room for refinement, such as the larger cartridges which have been proposed. I'm not sure if that will affect reliability though.
high speed cruise		#20	[-]
Posts: 2576 (10/23/08 03:11 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	That "blonde" mentioned is from WV (my state) and she was pretty upset that the military made her out to be a hero......she said she never fired a shot........her humvee rear-ended the truck in front. That was all. No firefight. GREG