I'm back for now and the drilling is on its way (UPDATE: Strange Rifle Caliber!)...

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Dalkowski110	I'm back for now and the drilling is on its way (UPDATE: Strange Rifle Caliber!)...	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1189 (08/07/08 04:05 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Just as the title says. I've been having chronic health issues plus I've been busy and thus not been able to post here for a while. But I think I'm back. Also, today I bought the drilling. It should be home and I should have pictures of it up about a week from now. I'll be taking it to the gunsmith, and the range after the gunsmith (who is quite familiar with drillings) gets done just looking at it. I'll post pics and range reports when I get it. Last Edited By: Dalkowski110 08/28/08 07:07 PM. Edited 1 time.
Vladymere gr		#1	[-]
Posts: 2398 (08/08/08 07:21 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm glad that your health has improved Dalko and look forward to the photos. I aspire to own a drilling but the cost has been prohibitive to date. Vlad Looking for Gew.88 based sporting rifles Looking for a Lyman #22 sight for the Gew.88/Mannlicher
Dalkowski110		#2	[-]
Posts: 1190 (08/11/08 02:52 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Okay, it's at the gun shop. Unfortunately, due to scheduling commitments, I'm going to have to wait till Thursday to pick it up. Photos to follow then!
Dalkowski110		#3	[-]
Posts: 1192 (08/16/08 11:39 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Okay, I picked it up and have it. I'll be posting pictures later, but I can get a description up now. First off, it's still very tight and relatively lightly used. It takes some effort to cock it even after I oiled it. Second, while the gun was indeed made in September, 1924 (thus predating all other recorded examples), the barrel is most certainly not 8x57JR. I've not yet cast the chamber, but I'm almost positive it's a .30-30. Considering the barrel was proofed for a cartridge 50.5mm in length (aka, how long the .30-30 is, though it's referred to as the 7.62x51R in Europe...I guess they rounded up), I'm not quite sure how he missed this. The barrel is also too tight for an 8mm cartridge and has a gentler shoulder and longer neck. Considering the gun was actually catalogued the next year as a .30-30 with regards to the rifle barrel, I think it's fair to assume for now that it does indeed fire .30-30 (and yes, I will cast the chamber). The shotgun barrels are regular 12 Ga. 2 3/4", though. The gun is in perfect working order. The safety is a little sticky due to grime, but working it back and forth seems to loosen it up quite a bit. The tang slider to switch from rifle to shotgun and vice versa works great. Cocking indicators work flawlessly. I need to adjust the set trigger a teency bit (pull is way too light when the trigger is set), but that's easy. Wood is in really nice shape. The case coloring is great. The gold inlay where it says "Simson" looks great. I can't wait to get pics up!
Finn Collector		#4	[-]
Posts: 89 (08/18/08 10:03 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Congrats on the acquisition. I look forward to seeing the pics!
Vladymere gr		#5	[-]
Posts: 2401 (08/18/08 01:10 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Nice avatar Finn Collector! Vlad Looking for Gew.88 based sporting rifles Looking for a Lyman #22 sight for the Gew.88/Mannlicher
Dalkowski110		#6	[-]
Posts: 1193 (08/20/08 09:00 AM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Okay, here we go! The first pictures were taken by the seller... The drilling. You can see the engraving on the top here, plus the cocking indicators. Also note the Greener crossbolt safety. The left hand side. Note the safety on the wood sidepanel. The right hand side. Note the engraving. With the barrels removed. Note that the shotgun barrels feature removable breech faces so the firing pins can be easily maintained. The barrel. Note the date and caliber. Why would the rifle barrel be marked 7.9mm yet be a .30-30? Forend. Note the Deeley forend release, which seems to be made of sterling silver. Krupp Steel Barrels marking. Rifle sight (which automatically flips up when the drilling is set to rifle mode) and Iver Johnson Sporting Goods marking. Stock (note the lack of a cheekpiece; it has a right-hand bent, instead) Now, the pictures I took... The "Simson" maker's mark. Note the dual underlugs in place as well. Tang slider (set to shotgun). Composite photo with my Teschner-Collath Drilling. Enjoy the photos!
Vladymere gr		#7	[-]
Posts: 2402 (08/21/08 08:55 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Very nice Dalko. .30-30? Really? Vlad Looking for Gew.88 based sporting rifles Looking for a Lyman #22 sight for the Gew.88/Mannlicher
Dalkowski110		#8	[-]
Posts: 1194 (08/22/08 09:19 AM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would guess so. It's not 8x57JR (cartridge won't fit) and the only catalogued caliber for this drilling was .30-30.
KevinP In UK		#9	[-]
Posts: 1943 (08/23/08 07:37 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Check carefully because there was an 8x51K cartridge which had a 0.315" bore accordign to the Mauser records reproduced in the book "Original Obendorf Sporting rifles" this cartridge used a 158 grain bullet at a velocity of 2380 fps and 1990 ft lbs energy. The "K" of course means short! Best Regards. KP Don't let the bastards grind you down!
Dalkowski110		#10	[-]
Posts: 1195 (08/24/08 04:49 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have a photo of the 8x51KR in Frank Barnes' Cartridges of the World, Tenth Edition. Even by eyeballing the chamber, the 8x51KR's neck is MUCH shorter than a .30-30's and whatever the rifle barrel is chambered for. I can't see how it would fit. Thanks for the tip, though! I'll be seeing my gunsmith later this week.
Dalkowski110		#11	[-]
Posts: 1210 (08/28/08 06:58 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	And we have yet another plot twist. The rifle barrel is not .30-30. I was wrong about it being 8x57JR and wrong about it being .30-30. Instead, what we have here is a rather unlikely candidate, though one that fits perfectly. Get ready for it...8x50R Mannlicher. A fellow named Tom, a drilling afficianado that works at the gunshop I take my guns to be serviced at, just happened to be there and told me everything I'd dug up about my drilling and then some. First, Simson also made a few of these guns for Sloane's. My gun is a Model 33, too. He pointed out the engraving. Well, a "pre-Model 33." See, every Simson he's seen, heard of, or seen catalogued made for the American market (he said about a dozen he's seen in person, plus the ones he's heard of and seen catalogued) has been in .30-30. He'd never seen an example in 8x50R Mannlicher and guessed at first that it could have been a one-off custom order. While that possibility can't be ruled out, a few minutes later, I noticed a second serial number just aft of where the Deeley forend latch hooks up. It's tough to tell with Gothic script (and I will be getting a picture of it up), but it either says "IJ5" or "H5." Considering the date production began by looking through the available sources (September, 1924) and my date (September, 1924), perhaps this was the fifth gun made? It would do a nice job tying up the loose ends and explain the strange caliber, but unfortunately, there's not much out there to support it. But if there is something, it lies in an unlikely place...the tang slider markings. I noticed earlier that they said "S" and "K," NOT "S" and "R" ("Shotgun" and "Rifle") as most American market drillings seem to have. But "S" and "K" make sense on a German gun..."Schrottflinte" and "Karabiner." Tom believed I had something here, but didn't speculate further. Regardless, I'm beginning to believe this gun is a bit more unique than I'd thought upon receiving it.
ktr		#12	[-]
Posts: 2 (08/29/08 03:49 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Could the caliber be 32 Winchester Special. Same length as the 30-30 but it's an 8mm caliber. The 8x50R Mannlicher round is quite a bit larger at the base than the 30-30 family of cartridges. It shares the same rim and base diameter as the 7.62x54R Russian military round. Should be easy to eyeball the difference in the chamber size at the back to eliminate either the 30-30/32Spec or the 8x50R. That's an awfully nice looking drilling! > > Sorry about the small group of malcontents over on the Double Gun forum. It used to be a very well mannered place.
texraid		#13	[-]
Posts: 455 (08/29/08 06:05 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It IS nice...good to see you around KTR. Post some of your treasures when you get around to it.
Dalkowski110		#14	[-]
Posts: 1211 (08/29/08 11:34 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"The 8x50R Mannlicher round is quite a bit larger at the base than the 30-30 family of cartridges." Exactly, which is how we reached our conclusion. We were kinda scratching our heads that an 8x56R Mannlicher (same case family as the 8x50R Mannlicher) case head fit perfectly. We measured all sorts of rim dimensions, how wide the cartridge case was, the neck...everything matched the 8x50R Mannlicher. Doesn't make a ton of sense, but hey, if this thing is as early as everyone thinks it is and was the fifth made or a custom one-off, perhaps it starts to make sense. "That's an awfully nice looking drilling!" Thanks! It is currently the centerpiece to my collection and while I like my Turkish Gewehr 88/05 more, that's simply because it was the first gun I ever got and I have an emotional attachment to it. I LOVE this thing. And it is nice to see a new face around here...I do hope you stick around! It's okay about the other forum. You don't have to apologize for something you didn't do.
combatwetexit		#15	[-]
Posts: 30 (10/29/08 09:28 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If a 8mm 323 or 318 didn't fit the bore, then it isn't a 8x50 Mannlicher either. That round has a 329 bore, but was originally loaded with 323 bullets.
Dalkowski110		#16	[-]
Posts: 1221 (11/10/08 04:50 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"If a 8mm 323 or 318 didn't fit the bore," It fit the bore...the problem was the cartridge. Incidentally, I ordered custom ammo over a month ago. Still waiting for it.
jungle jim		#17	[-]
Posts: 268 (11/10/08 10:18 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Has the rifle been treated to a cerrosafe session. That would be a sure fire way to get some good chamber measurements. I bet that Ken Waters would probably have dimensions is the Pet Loads compilation. Few Things Beat Quality Behind The Trigger Jim
Dalkowski110		#18	[-]
Posts: 1222 (11/10/08 11:42 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"Has the rifle been treated to a cerrosafe session. That would be a sure fire way to get some good chamber measurements." The drilling has since had its rifle barrel chamber cast. It's 8x50R Mannlicher.