[Surplus Rifle.Com's New Article:]
Slug, Measure, & Match: Using the Right Bullet for the Right Barrel Diameter
By Mark Trope & R. Ted Jeo
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shawncat |
Surplus to hunting rounds? |
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I have some M.K.E 952 -7.9 surplus ammo.Is there any way I can pull the bullets,exchange them for lead hunting rounds?Will the powder have to be changed?Is the
powder corrosive or the primer or both.Im not going to do it myself,just want to know if it can be done.Would it be cheaper to just buy commercial hunting
rounds?
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mauserand9mm |
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I believe it is Turkish and the primers would be corrosive. The powder never is corrosive. The primer is actually inert until is is fired and then it produces a salt which can cause corrosion. Generally you can keep the same powder load if you are replacing with the same weight soft point projectile but you might want to reduce the load by a grain or two if it is anything like the 1954 vintage which is loaded hot! It really depends on how reliable the ammo is - does it always go bang every time? And also whether you'll be able to clean the barrel soon after firing it and the relative humidity - the corrosion can start quickly in humid climates.
Last Edited By: mauserand9mm
09/16/08 07:31 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Mountain Doctor |
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There are also some safety issues to putting a loaded live cartridge in the press.
If you went a little lighter on the bullet, or reduced the charge about 10% you would otherwise be safe. Mauser's point is also good, not all 8mm surplus is surefire, I'd hate to lose a quarry for a bad primer. I think converting the surplus would be poor economy. Buy some commercial hunting rounds or load your own from scratch. JMHO. |
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Parashooter |
What's up, Doc? | ||
Mountain Doctor wrote:Every time we complete the seating stroke on a newly-handloaded round we have a "loaded live cartridge in the press." Is this a safety issue? |
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shawncat |
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Thanks for the help.I have 700 roundsof the M.K.E. but dont want to sight in with it because I cant hunt it in Missouri.Shot twenty rounds......no
misfires.Buddy who sold it to me said no misfires either......yet.Like M.D. said....dont want to take a chance.Shoots good ,right on at 40yds, shoots 3"
right at 100yds.I want to sight in with hunting rds.before I have to tweek sight.I guess I would move my front sight to the right if it keeps hitting to the
right?
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Mountain Doctor |
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Parashooter wrote: .Good point, I guess not |
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richard8120 |
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Swapping SP bullets with Turk ammo can be done and will produce a very accurate round.
The original powder charge has to be reduced 5 to 10% at a minimum. My tests used 150g hornady soft points. I had to reduce the original 49g charge to 47g to keep the velocity just under at 2900 fps Must commercial bullets have a longer bearing surface then the Turk spitzer bullet. This causes more friction and increases pressure. Start low and work up slow !!! |
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temperflash |
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Don't reduce the charge too much. A smaller than normal charge of a slow powder can cause a detonation rather than the drawn out push of a normal charge.
reduced by 5% to 10% sounds about right, only fast burning powders should be used for very light loads. Its sort of counter intuitive but its a recognized effect. I've pulled the bullets from Soviet Steel cased berdan primed 7.62X54R using an inertial bullet puller and then reloaded with a medium charge (forget the exact weight) of Winchester 760 powder and the 150 gr Hornady .312 I use in my .303 loads. These I crimped using the .303 lee loader's crimping feature. The cobbled together sporting loads gave suprizingly good accuracy in an old and nearly worn out Nagant bore. When I owned an Iranian Mauser carbine I ran across Canadian manufacture WW2 BESA MG loads which used a boxer primer. Thats probably the best 8mm military load ever made. I had to anneal the case necks when reloading, but aside from that the brass was extremely durable. because of the short barrel I looked up low intensity loadings suggested for the G33/40 carbine. they suggested 4198, and 4227 for reduced charges. Power level using 160 grain bullets was pretty close to 30-30 winchester levels are groups at 50-75 yards were very tight. I forget the exact charge weight (30+ grains). PS I was given several dozen rounds of South American 7.62 NATO ammo which was loaded with a powder which was manufactured for use in the 7.65 Mauser, and I'm told was exactly like the old Mauser powders, a flat square flake powder. The powder from these rounds smelled very strongly of ammonia, so I set it aside in a steel powder canister. Some months later on I found the fumes from the powder had eaten away the bottom half of the canister and heavily rusted all the steel objects nearby. This was a singular case of poor storage of the cartridges in a tropical environment and possibly the powder from only that particular lot was so unstable. The fumes leaking out of the cartridges before I pulled the bullets had already caused the gilding metal to start to peel from the steel jackets. I was not able to save any of the components. even though most of the brass cases showed no obvious corrosion I chose to dump the whole sheebang rather than take a chance on it. I've heard of no such problem with the Turk Mauser ammo. It's always a good idea to pull a few bullets from any lot of very old ammo and check the powder for signs of chemical break down. Broken down powders usually smell like cat urine, and pretty strongly. Most powders have a slight ammonia odor that disapates quickly. If the smell is exceptionally strong, funky, and lingers, the powder is suspect. I've decided to avoid old surplus ammo altogether as long as new boxer primed cases are available. I do like to use the Soviet steel core 7.62 bullets I pulled years ago in target loads for my two groove Savage .303. They mike at .3125 and shoot very well in the .303 two groove bore. I figure the steel core helps center the slug and the lead sheath between jacket and core is squeezed tight against the core and the hydralic forces of the semi liquid compressed lead extrudes the jacket into the grooves very evenly. I don't plan to use then in my five groove No. 1 bore though. |
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mauserand9mm |
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Yes, light loads are a problem with slow burning powders but I thought this was only a problem with magnum cartridges (ie really slow burning powders), I
didn't think the 8x57 would be likely a canditate for this problem.
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shawncat |
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Thank you for the replies,very informative.One more question.My friend thinks the M.K.E 7.9 surplus ammo is lead and legal to hunt big game here in Missouri
with.I am thinking it's FMJ ,thus illegal.Any help?
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Tmygun |
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You'd have to check your state's game regulations, but I think most states stipulate that you need an exposed lead tip soft point, not a fmj. I know in
Pa. fmj's are definitely a no no.
Tmygun
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lonniemike |
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Shawn, You would have to check out your state's specific big game laws. Here in Florida FMJ's are legal for any game or varmit animal except for white tailed deer. However lead cored FMJ's can be hollow pointed or they can be turned around so that they become flat nosed projectiles with an extreme boat-tail! best-o-luck |
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Parashooter |
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There's an element of risk to hollow-pointing FMJ bullets with core exposed at the base. Sometimes the core gets pushed out through the jacket in the
barrel, leaving the shed jacket as a partial obstruction for the next shot. It's unlikely, but it has happened.
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shawncat |
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I'll call Missouri conservation tomorrow and find out what's legal.So far the surplus ammo outshoots the Remington core-lokt that I bought at $30 bucks
a box of 20.Seeing how I have 700 rounds of surplus I would bet they are illegal............my luck.........but .......I will find the best load for
hunting.Putting down game with the best performing bullet,humanly.........is very important to me.Thanks for the help.
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meister mash |
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Take them in to your grinder and grind the nose off till you see a small spot of lead. Won't that work?
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combatwetexit |
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shawncat wrote: Primer is the corrosive element in the mixture here as stated earlier. The idea of pulling the bullet to replace it with another seems sort of silly, if you are set up to do that, you are set up to work up a load correctly with new or once fired brass, new powder and bullet of your choice with very little additional expense. Shoot the surplus for practice. Nicking off the point of a FMJ bullet will produce erratic results in final bullet weight and expansion if any at all and introduces a host of other issues as well like the core firing down range, but the jacket lodged in the barrel. Firing pointed FMJ bullets into an animal will produce erratic results too. FMJ hunting rounds are round nose or very blunt for a reason, they track straight and do not tumble as pointed FMJ are want to do. Do it right, don't try and take a short cut here to save pennies. |
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res45 |
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I wouldn't necessarily call it silly more like a challenge,If you have a load of brass case surplus ammo lying around like the Bulgarian HB I have that
shoots like buckshot why not convert some of it over to something useful. I have the ability to reload 54r ammo but affordable reloadable brass cases are in
short supply,so why use them up till necessary plus I enjoy making something useful out of something not. A friend of mine gave me three hundred Speer .311
150 gr. HotCor left over from his 303 days so I used them to convert some of my Bulgarian ammo over for my M44 and my brothers 91/30. The difference is pretty
amazing group wide between the factory stuff and what you get using a quality bullet replacement and a balanced powder charge. We both get around 2"
groups with our rifles using these rds.
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Gun Toting Monkeyboy |
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Well, you can do the Bubba thing and grind the tips off. The other poster mentioned the risk with that. Or you can look around and see if you can find any
cheap wolf/bear 8mm with soft points. Or you can get out the inertial puller, and weigh the bullet and the powder charge. Buy some commercial 8mm soft point
bullets from midway or grafs that weigh about the same as your surplus bullets (within 5-10 grains, not 30-40 grains difference). Put the take down powder from
the original rounds in your measure, and back the charge weight down 5-10%. Then reload 20 rounds and head to the range. Watch for pressure signs and see how
accurate they are. If they are reasonable accurate, just leave it like that, and reload as many as you want. If accuracy is poor, try adjusting the charge up
or down a bit. As for the charge being to light, don't stress about that too much. You are likely to have a charge of around 40-55 grains to start with.
Bumping 10% off of that won't even come close to bumping you down to .30-30 levels. I have shot rounds with as little as 27 grains of IMR 4895 in them,
with no ill effects. I went even lighter than that in 8mm Lebel. All that happened with that was the brass didn't expand enough, and I had soot half way
down the case after firing. And while it's not the greatest, it is a far cry from a detonation..
-Mb |
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