thx.
Loading the .303 Brit?
visit
.303 British.Com
Also visit
Jay Currah's
The Lee Enfield
Surplus Rifle.Com's Rifle Data Section's
[SMLE #1 MkIII] --
[Enfield Rifle No.4 Mk 1 and 2<
Please take time to visit our sponsor.

The Winning Photo for March,
jisii’s 1918 BSA
| About this site |
|---|
| C&R Dealer Links | General Related Links |
| The Member's Map | The Gun Control Forum |
Due to the main focus of this site on the collecting and shooting
of C&R and military surplus firearms in their collectible original configurations,
sporterising topics will not be permitted in these fourms.
Thankyou,
ParallaxBill
Parallax's Trader Boards
See the new location at the bottom of the forum list
**Membership applications no longer required to post but you still must be registered.**
No dealers please!
Back in Production, New and Improved
Darrell's Scout Mount Page & Forum
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
gumpy47 |
No4 markI |
Lead | |
|
I just acquired a nor4markI that externally is in great shape with an absolute sewer barrel.. The interesting part is that the magazine, barrel band, and
trigger guard, along with rear sling swivel has been chromed. Anybody ever run accross this. It has no rebuild or import marks on it either by the way.
thx. |
|||
Rustybore |
|||
|
It sounds like a parade or ceremonial rifle that shot a lot of blanks and was never cleaned afterwards.
Kevin in Or. |
|||
PaulM.curioandrelicfi... |
about the MK1 | ||
|
Gumpy traditionally the Lee Enfield has been known for filthy bores I bought mine from Century and the bore was abysmal.Everything else was mint including the fact that all the numbers match She's a BSA that comes from Shirley UK.A real British Girl.Fearing the worst I took it to a friend who inspected it and then suggseted that I buy a bore snake.That's what it took a bore snake,some good Hoppes cleaning fluid and some TLC. Now she not only looks good but fires great and accurate?Oh Boy is she Rusty Bore may be right, but take her to a smith and also give the bore a real good cleaning Lots of luck |
|||
Ed Novak |
|||
|
I don't think that "traditionally the Lee Enfield has been known for filthy bores..." Broad brush there.
|
|||
TikiRocker |
|||
|
Have to cast my lot with Mr Novak here ... soldiers in the Commonwealth forces were to keep their rifles clean I think much of what we see of Enfield rifle
condition has to do with use after sale to 3rd Party nations and then usage by the civllian market; this condition is in no way indicative of Wartime
condition.
|
|||
PaulM.curioandrelicfi... |
|||
|
what I was trying to say is this.My rifle came to me with a filthy bore.I asked century and they apologized but insisted that these rifles have been sitting in
warehouses for many years.The 303 Enfield Forum and also Ian Skennerton(these folks are experts on the Lee Enfield)Or do you folks consider yourselves more
knowledgeable than them as well Getting back to what they said was that yes the British Soldier did take care of his rifle as do we.I think 30 years in the
Army gives me room to talk.The biggest part of it was US InfantryBut John Bull has not had a Lee Enfield in his/her hands for quite a number of years.These
rifles like they said have been sitting in warehouses waiting for guys like ourselves to buy them.Yeah my girl was dirty,but considering I got a real gem I did
the cleaning quite happily,and she turned out great.She was made in 1942 in Shirley UK and is a real brit born and carried.So there you have it yes your Lee
enfield or SMLE may require a little TLC,but she is one of the better war riflles,and is #3 in the top ten war rifles...Among the top bolt action war rifles
she is #1 Gumpy just clean her up son,and remember what I said about getting her checked by your local gun store Have fun with her She handles great on the
range Paul M
|
|||
Ed Novak |
|||
|
I do not believe that Ian Skennerton or the 303 Enfield Forum have stated that "traditionally the Lee Enfield has been known for filthy bores.." I
am, by no means, an expert but I have owned several dozens of various LEs over the past 40 years and I've yet to purchase one with a filthy bore. I do
understand that Century may have LEs in store with filthy bores, given the procurement sources it may have but these are surely a tiny fraction of
"LEs" in the world. If I seem to take too great exception to your comment, the fault is mine.
LECS member #2.
|
|||
temperflash |
|||
|
Well every Enfield brought to me fresh from the stores required quite a bit of cleaning, and not just the grease from storage. Resin from Cordite loads was
thick and not easy to remove and metal fouling was also laid on pretty thick. Luckily corrosion had not set in on most of them.
I'd start off with the muzzle in a can of kerosene and run the brush through and back picking up fresh kerosene with each stroke. Shortly the kerosene was jet black with chunks of crud sinking to the bottom by the handful. Less than pristine bores are pretty common for most Milsurp rifles that have seen use in the third world and resin based heat shield goop does its job by piling up from shot to shot. Regular bore cleaning methods aren't that effective, and the Botswana National Guard probably only has one cleaning rod per hundred troops. With luck the goop won't have locked corrosive salts into the metal. If the last user had only very old cupro nickel ammo available for training purposes that stuff is extra hard to remove and the metal underneath is often eaten away. The Mk III I just got had only thirty rounds of FN 50 fired through it since last cleaning then getting stuck in a jammed gunsafe and it took a week to even begin to get all the crud out. Then after the Sweets got all of it out that it could soaking with balistol overnight and brushing again broke loose even more every day for two weeks. She's clean now, and I'll be using my hand loads only so she stays that way. |
|||
PaulM.curioandrelicfi... |
|||
|
No you're not an expert Novak,and neither am I have been doing this for about 4 years licensed and unlicensed and I'm still learning.If you're
going to try to tell me that every rifle you have bought came to you squeeky clean and pristine bored I'm not buying it.also Novak try to remember this Not
every shiney bore is 100% All rifles,and pistols all C&Rs need constant care and maintainence
Good night Gentlemen |
|||
TikiRocker |
|||
|
Paul,
I have met Ian in person and I don't think he would disagree with my response ... the comment I was responding to was "traditionally the Lee Enfield has been known for filthy bores " ... perhaps we need to qualify our statements a little more clearly is all. If you are saying this is commonly the case after being stored in grease, dirt and perhaps from a 3rd party country etc ( perhaps from 40 years of storage ) sure ... you could say that of any rifle kept in the same condition - so then lets just say any rifle stored this way would have a filthy bore. However ... saying that Enfield's traditionally have filthy bores as a general statement just isn't true as far as I'm concerned ... tradition would indicate to me wartime usage. Cheers. |
|||
PaulM.curioandrelicfi... |
TikiRocker | ||
|
Now that my Brother is exactly what I was trying to say Thank you sir. No soldier worth his/hersalt ever allows their rifle to get dirty,certainly not the brave men and women of Her Majesty's armed Forces.I've had the honor of working along side them and know how conscientious,and meticulous they are.What I was attempting to say is after 30 to 50 years of laying in some warehouse they get dirty.Some of these dealers feel that they are selling the darn thing cheap so let the buyer clean it.Some of them don't even bother to make sure that the weapon is safe,or complete. fortunately these are in the miority Most dealer are reputable. I bought my Lee Enfield from Century Intl It was easy to see that she had indeed been stored over a long period. But she was complete,in firing shape,and simply in need of as good cleaning.One or two swipes with a bore snake and the bore was good to go She fires great and talk about accurate I just placed in a local competition with her.She and I will win and that is a fact.C&R wise she a real Brit from Shirley in the UK Thanks for the support My Brother and keep on shooting Regards Paul McDermott SFC US Army Retired |
|||
Ed Novak |
|||
PaulM wrote:My name is ed or my name is Mr. Novak (we are no longer in "boot" here). I will tell you, in complete honesty that I've never received an LE requiring more than a few passes of a Kroil-soaked patch to clean up the bore of a new-to-me LE but then, I've purchased my LEs from small-volume dealers or private parties. Your source of specimen comparison is much different from mine so it appears that we have a difference of perspective and I honor your experience and opinion.
LECS member #2.
|
|||
temperflash |
|||
|
It only takes one trip to the range by a shooter unfamilar with Cordite loaded ammo to leave a bore in hideous shape, appearance wise anyway.
The previous owner of my No.1 was familar with small bore rifles, large bore pistols, shotguns, and BP revolvers. He'd fired the handloads I fixed up for him, and Winchester sporting ammo through the No.1 and knew how to clean modern powder fouling well enough, but when a gunshop owner gave him a free bandoleer of ammo it never occurred to him that this ammo would leave more fouling than the ammo he was used to or that the fouling it left would be more difficult to clean out of the bore. Then after coming home from a shooting session he sprayed some solvent in the bore to let it soak overnight and when he put it in the gunsafe the shorter than normal guncase of his takedown rifle /shotgun combo fell over and jammed the locking bar so he couldn't get it open. The No.1 sat uncleaned in the safe for months till members of another forum came up with ideas on how to get the safe open. He finally checked a safe of the same brand and took measurements, then drilled a 1/4 inch hole on the side of the safe and pushed the offending guncase aside using a shishkabob spit. Something to remember if this ever happens to you guys. Anyway he'd agreed to sell me this rifle as soon as he could get the safe open, I'd been keeping track of this particular No.1 Mk III for over 16 years planning to buy it from him the moment he found a rifle he liked better. When I saw the bore I was shocked, it looked like roofing tar had been swabbed into the bore with a brush. This was especially vexing since the main reason I wanted it was that it has the best and tiightest bore of any WW1 era enfield I've ever seen, near pristine when I cleaned it up for him when he first got it. Luckily there appears to be no damage, whatever he sprayed down the bore seems to have prevented any pitting, even after so long a time uncleaned. It took a lot of elbow grease and three different brands of solvent plus three new brushes to get all the crud out through. I Checked it again last night and after I'd let Balistol work on it for a couple of weeks there was a slight bit of color to the patches which I figure to be the last vestiges of leading floating loose. Ten to one this final smear of leading will continue to come loose a wee bit at a time for some time to come. A month back another old friend left his Mk III* here so I could take some photos. It looked clean as a pin, but I decided I might as well run a few patches through it since it had been in storage for several years. Sweets patches showed no fouling at all, I then tried some balistol and the patches came out black as coal. A patch got stuck and when I finally teased it out a chunk of lead dropped out that had been invisible to the naked eye when looking down the bore. He'd tried some cast bullet loads years ago and this chunk of lead had been ironed into the groove to be floated loose and rolled up by the balistol soaked patch. Sweets gets out almost everything but apparently resin and lead can get past it. Balistol seems to get out stuff other solvents can't touch. Great stuff. As often as we find Enfield bores that are significantly oversized, as much as three or four thousandths, yet still shootable and accurate so long as bullets suited for the purpose are used, such as the Hornady .312 or others that slug out to fill the grooves. It seems to me that many Enfield bores that look to be a lost cause might be saved by lead lapping. I've seen references to barrels marked as having been "draw lapped" but I'm not sure what is meant by that. I've also seen references to some pre SMLE rifles having about half the bore lapped towards the muzzle end, to allow blowby and a resulting drop in pressures so they would hold up better to the higher pressure WW1 loadings. o lapping bores was not an uncommon process for the British armorers. Any way if a slightly pitted bore that slugs out at .311-.312 or so were carefully lead lapped (not fire lapping but old style lead lapping) to no more than .314-.315 or so it should still be shootable with some degree of accuracy. Mk VII bullets seem to slug out nicely and generally will shoot with decent accuracy in oversized bores. I expect they were designed to do just that. The German commission rifle if I'm not mistaken generally had a .321 bore yet the bullets were .318, with slugging meant to make up the difference. Bullets designed for the .32-40 Winchester and measuring .321 were often recommended for reloading the 8mm for the commision rifles. I've miked 7.65 Mauser bullets that measured .314 at the base, but smaller further up, if these were available they'd be a good option for an oversized .303 bore. And cast bullets of course can be sized to or bumped up to .314 or larger diameter if necessary. Bumping up jacketed bullets is an old trick, many .22 Savage High Power owners found this necessary when .228 bullets were unobtainable. |
|||
Ed Novak |
|||
|
Temperflash: Thanks for the posting. I do my best to remember to flush with boiling water after range time but one of these days...
LECS member #2.
|
|||
eagle7 |
|||
|
Draw lapped refers to the wear to the muzzle area of the rifling by improper use of a pull-through while cleaning. British LE manuals illustrated the correct
way to use the pull-through, ie. by pulling it straight up through the bore without "whip-sawing" the cord on the rifling. I remember seeing a
humorous illustration in a manual showing a "slovenly soldier" (a British Beetle Bailey) using the pull-through while holding his rifle a an angle,
merrily grinding away on the muzzle crown..
|
|||
Ed Novak |
|||
eagle7 wrote:You are referring to "cord wear". Draw-lapped has to do with the bore being polished.
LECS member #2.
|
|||