Glad this poor guy isn't hurt.

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nationalmatch.collectorguns35625	Glad this poor guy isn't hurt.	Lead	[-]
Posts: 4 (11/28/08 06:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None http://www.surplusriflefo...opic.php?f=53&t=66812
m1 talker		#1	[-]
Posts: 6257 (11/28/08 07:00 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would also suspect it was an ammo problem. I feel for the owner who lost a thousand dollar rifle, but to spend that much on a rifle and then try to cut corners by buying questionable reloaded ammunition simply does not make any sense to me. Curt
Ranger487		#2	[-]
Posts: 73 (11/29/08 09:51 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I also glad he isnt hurt but he needs to accept the responsiblity himself. He used reloads in a rifle that the manufacturer told him not to. He used reloads that came in a unmarked package, and did I mention he used someone elses reloads?
NC Cruffler		#3	[-]
Posts: 409 (11/29/08 09:57 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This guy is S.O.L. : I received it Monday at a local gun dealer. While I was at the gun dealer I also picked up a pack of 30-06 165 grain reloads Dave Green, NRA Life Member since 1973
eb in oregon		#4	[-]
Posts: 384 (11/29/08 10:21 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	He used reloads in a rifle that the manufacturer told him not to. This in itself, is a standard manufacturer condition of use. All manufacturers (maybe with one or two exceptions) add this phrase to their user manuals so that if there is any problem with ammo use the warranty is void. Smart on their part as the factory has absolutely control of the type of re-loads that are stuffed into their products. Yup, as "NC Cruffler" said, this guy is left holding the bag (as in wrecked rifle.) Now, on the face of it, this catastrophic failure was caused by a BAD re-loaded round. I'm really wondering what was in that round as it is virtually impossible to double charge a 30-06 case unless it was a reduced charge round using a pistol powder. I've reloaded for years for my M1 and other 30-06 rifles and never used a powder that didn't at least fill the case up to abpout 90% capacity as full case capacity is ideal for efficient combustion. At least that is what all the bullet and powder manufacturers have said, so that's what I do and I've never had a bad round or other problem as I stay with military pressures and bullet weights. May I also point out that most likely 90% of the guys that shoot Hi-power match use re-loads. It's not the fact that they are re-loaded, it's what they were re-loaded for. The action of a Garand is incredibly strong and has survived ridiculous pressures during tests conducted through the years since it was designed. I read of one where the bolt of one had cracked after firing several thousand high pressure rounds, yet still survived the firing of several more proof loads. Now those "Blue Pills" are loaded pretty stout, so what ever wrecked this guy's Garand were loaded with something that didn't burn but detonated. I am very curious what was in that case, and somewhat suspicious about this whole affair. Eric "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776
Ranger487		#5	[-]
Posts: 74 (11/29/08 10:29 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This in itself, is a standard manufacturer condition of use. All manufacturers (maybe with one or two exceptions) add this phrase to their user manuals so that if there is any problem with ammo use the warranty is void Ya exactly, he did what no one should ever, ever do. Use reloads of unknown origin or quality.
HoosierDaddy		#6	[-]
Posts: 5273 (11/29/08 10:47 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	No telling how many times that case had been reloaded. Full size a brass case enough times and you have a work hardened case that doesn't expand properly to fill the chamber when fired. That expansion seals the chamber so hot gasses don't come back into the action. Notice how the cartridge case sets back almost like a rimmed magnum? Wonder if the gasses pushed the case back into he bolt hard enough to form that ring? Ash Iron Construction
m1 talker		#7	[-]
Posts: 6258 (11/29/08 11:18 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I am not a reloader, so I can't be qualified to discuss the issues that may have went on with the reloaded ammo. But I have studied it a lot and have purchased several reloading manuals over the years just to study the fine art of reloading. I remember well in the Hornady manual in the chapter discussing shooting reloaded ammunition they make mention that you should NEVER shoot ammo that someone else has reloaded, unless you know for a fact that the ammo was loaded with YOUR rifle in mind. The trend with a lot of reloaders is to load to the maximum performance with bolt action rifles. This is fine in itself and maybe the guy who reloaded it had the idea it would be shot in a bolt action rifle. We all know that slow burning powders and heavy bullets are bad for the Garand, but did the reloader know that the ammo would be fired in a Garand? I really doubt it. Three years ago at the range, a guy brought his .38 revolver to shoot up some ammo he loaded for it several years previously, and he just wanted to get rid of the ammo. Yeah, he thought he was a good reloader all right! At least one in each six round loading was a squib and he would have to knock the bullet out of the barrel with a short cleaning rod section! Everybody knew what would happen if a bullet got stuck in the barrel and another hot round was fired behind it, and after several bullet removal tricks, people at the range stopped shooting and let him shoot alone at one end of the range while the people were not standing close by him. Seeing things like this gives reloaders a bad name in view of the general public when an accident happens, and usually the fault that caused the accident is from stupid things like this. He could have well sold the boxes of reloaded ammunition at a gun show and walk away without a care, which most dealers would probably have done. But for this guy, he admitted that HE was the one who loaded it, so if anything happened, it would be HIS fault only. Yet I still see people at the range picking up brass and they don't reload themselves, but they always says that Bob is a good reloader and he will load it up for me so I can shoot it again. That is putting too much trust in something that could easily turn into a disaster if you ask me. Curt
beanstrung		#8	[-]
Posts: 4851 (11/29/08 11:40 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	A related point to ponder is that many folks "poo-poo" the current production Springfield CAST receivers (M1 & M1A) as being inferior and weak. From the looks in the photos, this cast receiver proved to be plenty strong. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand? Joel 3:9-10
John Rippert		#9	[-]
Posts: 861 (11/29/08 11:55 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Indeed, it looks like the receiver may have come through unscathed. It would be interesting to see some closeups of the receiver from several angles to see for certain how it fared.
Ranger487		#10	[-]
Posts: 75 (11/29/08 12:26 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I to was impressed that the reciever came through as well as it did but was it a cast commercial bolt? If so thats one reason the bolt failed and the reciver didn't
Old King Cole.weendotnetforum...		#11	[-]
Posts: 14 (11/29/08 04:23 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I can't believe it blew the gun in so many pieces
HoosierDaddy		#12	[-]
Posts: 5274 (11/29/08 04:49 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think it destructed like designed. Ash Iron Construction
NC Cruffler		#13	[-]
Posts: 410 (11/29/08 10:58 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Next time he needs to borrow this: CMP portable test firing facility If there is a next time... Dave Dave Green, NRA Life Member since 1973
HoosierDaddy		#14	[-]
Posts: 5278 (11/30/08 11:04 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Considering Mountain Doctor's problem with his reloaded ammo in his Galil(see the Semi Auto forum) that may be a cause of this destroyed rifle. MD was shooting his Galil and it quit firing. Then it would fire a couple hundred rounds and quit again. Turns out he didn't check case length and the cartridge was too long to let the bolt go into battery. Maybe the reloads this guy was using were the same way. The bolt closed partially and then when fired Kaboom. Will a Garand fire without the bolt going fully home? Ash Iron Construction
DUSM		#15	[-]
Posts: 174 (11/30/08 11:53 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	HoosierDaddy wrote: Will a Garand fire without the bolt going fully home? Absolutely. The free floating design of the firing pin has the potential for out of battery fire... especially with an improperly seated primer. The original solid round profile firing pin was another cause of OOB discharges... the pin can fracture and the tip can lodge in the bolt face, creating a fixed firing pin. The pin design was changed in late 1941 to the half round profile to correct this problem.There is a great series of photos on pages 126-127 of Billy Pyle's The Gas Trap Garand of the destroyed original Gas Trap rifle s/n 42664 caused by a broken solid round firing pin. Not as spectacular as the posted photos, but a failure none the less. I have observed other M1 rifles with a crack in the receiver heel where the bolt struck, indicative of slam fire. I'd have to say that the incident rifle doesn't appear to have suffered a slam fire... that was some serious handloading error.
eb in oregon		#16	[-]
Posts: 393 (11/30/08 12:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The more likely scenario is that the case was not only too long, but because of a heavy crimp was able to enter the chamber past the small step where the cartridge mouth is supposed to end. When fired the case mouth was unable to expand as the bullet attempted to exit the case. Thus the bullet may have been actually crimped in place by the chamber, where chamber pressures would have been destructively excessive. This is the scariest of the troubles that can occur from not trimming cases on a regular basis. Mentioned and illustrated in one of Speer's older loading manuals. I check my cases EVERY time I reload a batch of rounds. Either with calipers, or setting up the Forrester trimmer and just processing the cases. Some say that is excessive, I say it's proper precaution. This is based on a single round of my older brothers Remington 788 in .243 over thirty years ago. It was only about .015 longer than recommended case length. Primer flattened and blown out, bolt had to be hammered open, and this with a medium load. I was new to re-loading but took this one to heart. It is possible that this poor guy's accident just vindicated my excessive precautions. Eric "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776
Japlmg		#17	[-]
Posts: 281 (11/30/08 12:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	In my opinion, the rifle was fired with out the bolt fully locked into battery. A properlly set up M1 Garand has a firing pin safety block to prevent that, but on this one, who knows. Now I'm not saying the reloaded cartridge played no part in this; it could have been improperly resized leaving the shoulder too far forward (thus preventing the bolt from fully locking up), it could have been overcharged, and it could have been a bad piece of brass (or a combination of all three). The way the base of the case is blown out, makes me think the base was unsupported, thus a out of battery firing. Still, the rifle did a fine job of directing the high pressure gas in a safe direction, the uninjured shooter should be very thankful of a excellent design! But as others have pointed out; you spend a thousand bucks on a fine rifle, then get cheap on the ammo you will feed it :>(( The guy at the gun shop should have known better, than to sell reloads for use in a M1 Garand. As others have plainly stated; you only shoot M2 or equivalant 30-06 ammo in a Garand, as doing other wise is asking for a damaged rifle. Gregg
DUSM		#18	[-]
Posts: 175 (11/30/08 12:27 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I don't buy the OOB theory. The bolt would not have been locked (the author stated it was locked and had to be beaten open with a mallet), and the op rod, op rod catch and receiver heel should have exhibited damage. You can see where the brass flowed into the extractor cut. It is the result of handloading errors... most likely more than one. Last Edited By: DUSM 11/30/08 12:30 PM. Edited 2 times.
RichieRich3902		#19	[-]
Posts: 1304 (11/30/08 07:44 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would like to see if the locking lugs on the receiver are damaged? Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once. -William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
vamelungeon		#20	[-]
Posts: 798 (12/02/08 12:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I reload myself, and things like this give reloading a bad name. MY reloads are way BETTER than factory, IMHO. I would never buy reloaded ammo in an unmarked zip lock bag, and if I had just dropped $1000 on a rifle, I can't imagine skimping on the cartridges. The guy should have read the manual, it seems. I don't think there is any more technical explanation for this than someone put a load of pistol powder in a rifle case. The other rounds might not have the same powder, in fact they probably don't. My bet is that someone was loading pistol ammo and changed over to .30-06, and there was still some of the pistol powder in the powder measure and it went in that first case. You can't get enough 4895 in a case to do that, but 45 or 50 grains of Red Dot or Bullseye would be BAD, very bad. Hopefully the gun shop will 1) stop selling those crappy reloads and 2) put up some cash toward a new rifle, maybe half the price would be fair. NRA Life Member Audie N4AUD Wise, VA