Did the Finns free float their barrels?

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Vaughn4380	Did the Finns free float their barrels?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 45 (11/03/08 06:51 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Hello all, I just received my latest M39, a 1968 No Name with post war stock. One thing that caught my eye and is different than my other M39s is that it appears the barrel is free floated? Where the barrel leaves the stock the handguard is so wide it does not touch the barrel, the nose of the stock under the barrel is the same way, I can actualy flex the stock around the barrel. My other M39s (all with war-time stocks) have stocks and handguards that fit tightly against the barrel and there is no flexing. Is this normal? Anyone else have a stock like this? I disassembled it and it does not appear like it was sanded or modified, no shims were found either. I read on one of the Mosin websites that the later M39s were made for matches and I wonder if this one got extra special treatment for accuracy sake?
m1 talker		#1	[-]
Posts: 6188 (11/03/08 08:18 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The proof is in the pudding. How well does it shoot? Curt
zeebill		#2	[-]
Posts: 3336 (11/03/08 09:41 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	In my opinion it would be near to impossible to say either way for sure. I notice many M39's that certainly look like they have been shimmed to float the barrel. I know from shooting many different M39's that if you leave the muzzle end loose in the stock it seems to shoot better. I tighten all Mosins to try and elevate the muzzle end in the barrel channel and sort of crudely float the barrel. M91's and 91/30's if you leave the muzzle loose in the barrel channel of the stock and use the small screws the Finn's used to hold the hand guard bands and thereby hold the hand guard in place without snugging the barrel down into the stock they will shoot better. Now if that means the Finn's tried to float the barrel or not I am not willing to say one way or the other. It sure gives us some strong arguments but no definite answer in my eyes. Bill
Vaughn4380		#3	[-]
Posts: 46 (11/03/08 10:00 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	M1: I haven't tried to shoot it yet, I wanted to get others' opinions about it, having never seen a barrel loose like this I didn't want to damage anything. Zeebill: If a loose front end makes these rifles shoot better, than this one should have no room for improvement, none of the barrel even touches wood around the nosecap!
Vaughn4380		#4	[-]
Posts: 47 (11/03/08 10:16 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I found this pic on another post, you can see the gap around the barel where it exits the stock and handguard. My 1968 has more gap, so much so that none of it touches the barrel.
NotPC		#5	[-]
Posts: 5468 (11/04/08 01:20 AM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think that they were originally meant/designed to be free-floating - or at least to have that capability. I'm sure that over time stock parts (handguards/stocks) were mis-matched by soldiers and/or importers. Shims were lost and never replaced. Those shims not tacked down could have been re-installed in the wrong place or with the wrong number of them stacked in the "right" place. Fine tuning may show that a free-floating barrel may work best with a particular rifle where a little contact by the forward end of the stock or handguard may improve the accuracy of another rifle. Always shoot it before making any modifications - and then go slowly with any mods. Regards.
CR Hound	Did the Finns free float their barrels?	#6	[-]
Posts: 704 (11/05/08 02:53 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Free floating barrels seems fairly common with the later M39s. I have a late M39 that is also free floated. The opening in the stock & handguard was cut larger than on my other M39s, and the barrel is free floated. The stock appears to be originally made this way. This stock also looks like the barrel-channel wood was cut back a little more from the barrel than on my other M39s, but I have not compared it side-by-side with another stock. Shims were only added if needed. If your barrel is free floating, then it does not need shims. Your rifle should be very acurate.
harris hawk		#7	[-]
Posts: 126 (11/07/08 11:43 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I believe that the "free floating" stocks were probably post war, as if the rifle was used in a combat situation with the bayonet affixed, having a loose floated forearm could possibly cause issues when using the bayo in close combat situations(thrusting, twisting, and lifting). However, after the war a floated stock makes more since, for distance, and accuracy. JMO. Michael
timbo762		#8	[-]
Posts: 215 (11/08/08 07:44 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have yet to see a wartime photo of a Finnish soldier with a bayonet attached in the field. I have always heard the Finns didn't care for the bayonet and used their knife for close in fighting. All of my M39's (5) have had free floated barrels, and shot well.
harris hawk		#9	[-]
Posts: 127 (11/09/08 10:22 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	When the M39 rifles were tested by the armorers the front barrel clamp was loosened up to get the rifle to do 1.3 MOA at 100m, so they could get paid for them, and then tightened back up and issued to the troops. I know you can play with the front barrel clamp, and rear barrel band to get one to shoot more accurately. I've had eight of the M39 rifles, all war time rifles, stocks, and slings. I still own four currently, all of them are war time rifles, stocks, and slings. None of them appear to me to be floated, however by playing with the screws as I stated earlier, I guess you can get them in a floated position. I'm no kind of expert on these rifles, just stating what I've observed, seen for myself, and personal experience. Michael Last Edited By: harris hawk 11/16/08 09:24 AM. Edited 1 times.
zeebill		#10	[-]
Posts: 3344 (11/11/08 10:19 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I can't help but wonder just exactly where are you reading about the armorers doing this? Please be specific. Bill
Vaughn4380		#11	[-]
Posts: 48 (11/13/08 09:46 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	CR Hound wrote: Free floating barrels seems fairly common with the later M39s. I have a late M39 that is also free floated. The opening in the stock & handguard was cut larger than on my other M39s, and the barrel is free floated. The stock appears to be originally made this way. This stock also looks like the barrel-channel wood was cut back a little more from the barrel than on my other M39s, but I have not compared it side-by-side with another stock. Shims were only added if needed. If your barrel is free floating, then it does not need shims. Your rifle should be very acurate. This sounds exactly like mine, I am feeling better about shooting it now, I just need to find the time to get to the range!
harris hawk		#12	[-]
Posts: 132 (11/13/08 10:47 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	timbo762 wrote: I have yet to see a wartime photo of a Finnish soldier with a bayonet attached in the field. I have always heard the Finns didn't care for the bayonet and used their knife for close in fighting. All of my M39's (5) have had free floated barrels, and shot well. I have seen photos of said subjects with bayonets, and talked to a Finn friend of mine who told me that the WWII era Finn troops "trained with the bayonet", now whether or not they used the bayonet extensively, is questionable. I'd tend to believe that the "white death" tended to deal from afar. Were ALL of your M39's war time rifles on wartime stocks? Makes a difference. Michael
harris hawk		#13	[-]
Posts: 133 (11/13/08 11:16 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	zeebill wrote: I can't help but wonder just exactly where are you reading about the armorers doing this? Please be specific. Bill Zeebill, I will try to find the material you've requested, but I've read so many reference sources, and talked to my Finn friend who has personally spoken with several war veterans, and armorers about the Finn wars, and the various rifles, that it may be tough to provide. However, I will try my best to provide this info. I work very long, and difficult hours, and it's not like I have all the time in the world to go back, and provide ALL of my resources for my statements. I'm also not in the habit of just throwing out unqualified statements that I haven't read/heard from a viable/reliable source. There are many ways to play with the accuracy of these rifles, such as the rear action screw. Usually, I've been told that shims were used on rifles that were inherently inaccurate to begin with, and were actually used to make them more accurate. In other words, an accurate rifle didn't need shims to make it accurate. Either way, these rifles were the pinnacle of Finn made rifles, and they'd do any, and everything possible to make them absolutely the very best in accuracy. Michael Last Edited By: harris hawk 11/14/08 03:19 AM. Edited 1 times.
jimLEO1	M39s	#14	[-]
Posts: 600 (11/15/08 06:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have two M39 Finns that I ordered, received, cleaned them up and just put them in my gun safe and basically forgot about them. I like to shoot all my milsurps and have taken deer with most of them in stock form. Guess I'll have to get the 39s oiut and give 'em a go. I reload and always work up an accurate load for them. I have some milsurp ammo but it's corrosive and I hate to shoot it in a pristine bore which these have. I've been away from the forum too long I guess so I have a lot of reading to do and catching up. Jim JIM
zeebill		#15	[-]
Posts: 3350 (11/16/08 05:35 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Quotes from any Smith rifle books will not be allowed as they are know to be inaccurate in their facts! He he! Bill
harris hawk		#16	[-]
Posts: 138 (11/17/08 10:55 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	zeebill wrote: Quotes from any Smith rifle books will not be allowed as they are know to be inaccurate in their facts! He he! Bill You must've read the thread over on GB's. That's not where I read my info from, but it was nice of Mr.Carlson to add his resource. I can't believe that Ted, or Tuco didn't weigh in/contribute anything on this subject. Finn accuracy is one of the main reasons that I collect war time Finn M-N rifles, as I shoot my rifles on a regular basis, and demand that they be accurate. Michael
zeebill		#17	[-]
Posts: 3356 (11/18/08 04:50 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Sorry the Devil made me do that and sometimes I just get filled with him I am afraid. I believe and am not at all sure that is the book that miss ID'd a Finn RV27 in picture mode so anything I have read from there I look upon with jaundiced eyes. I would seriously love to know where that quote came from because I have seen it trashed several times years ago and no one really stepped up and defended it. It reappears from time to time and therefore it must exist somewhere! Bill
Doug Bowser	My M39	#18	[-]
Posts: 5 (12/03/08 10:19 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My M39 is free floating and it shoots 1.5" for 5 shots at 100 yards. This also brings to mind, the M28/30. It was definitely free floated. It had an aluminum sleeve that floated the barrel in the stock. When taking the Finn MN rifles out of the stock, be sure not to disturb any of the shims the armorers used to regulate the rifle. Some of the shims are held in place with small brads and some have no brads at all. It would be a shame to lose all the good work they did at the arms stations. Doug Bowser Author Rifles of the White Death
Carl Gustav		#19	[-]
Posts: 3191 (12/03/08 09:45 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Doug, I'm happy to see you posting here! I have an autographed copy of Rifles of the White Death and have used it extensivley. It sparked my interest not only in Finnish Mosins but also the history of Finland in WW II. Most of my M39s don't have free floated barrels but a couple do including a mint condition B barrel. Carl
ptrthgr8		#20	[-]
Posts: 3789 (12/08/08 09:24 AM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have a few dozen Finn rifles and the only one that I know for a fact has a free floated barrel is my M28/76. I can slide a piece of notebook paper between the barrel and the stock channel without any resistance at all. Of course, it's a match target rifle... so it's to be expected. But I do have many M39s that exhibit some degree of floating when it comes to the barrels. And when I say "some degree" I'm referring to some of the observations that have been posted here already. There's clearly some wiggle room between the stock and the barrel, but that can be adjusted by tightening the barrel bands. From looking at my rifles, I don't think they were floated in the same manner as the M28/76, but I think it's also clear to see that the Finns intended to accurize their rifles to some degree, hence the shims and generally looser fit between the barrel and stock (i.e. the K98k clearly was never intended to be a free floating barrel). These rifles were never intended to put 5 rounds into a quarter sized hole at 100 meters - there were designed to shoot minute of Ivan - so I think it's fairly silly to think these were built in the same manner as a match target rifle. But there's no doubt the Finns wanted a lot more from their rifles than what the Soviets wanted and they clearly took a lot of steps to improve them. That's one of the many reason why Finns are so much fun to collect and shoot. Cheers, ~ Greg ~ "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse." -- John Stuart Mill Check out my photos! public.fotki.com/ptrthgr8/ Click here to adopt a US sniper today!