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| Author | Comment | ||
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robbytheguy |
How would I correctly use the 1903 sight? |
Lead | |
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Is there a website I can go to that shows the in and outs of its use?
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beachbumbob |
Re: How would I correctly use the 1903 sight? | ||
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Robby,
I was lucky and had a vet that taught me. But he worked out of the Army TM. I have one now and refer to it frequently. Sometimes these manuals are not user-friendly but they are made for the "lowest common denominator". Get one, there is much valuable information in one. Carry it with you out to the range. It is usually easier when you can load one up and send it down range. Cheers, Bob |
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lutthier |
Re: How would I correctly use the 1903 sight? | ||
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I got this from Parashooter about 4 months ago. Very Helpful, but I still had a lot of problems trying to make it work, and the sight still wobbles around a bit. I hope the graphics are OK.
lutthier To disassemble the sight, turn the windage screw until the movable base clears the front retaining lip on the fixed base, then just lift. It isn't easy to tighten up a worn or sloppy '03 rear sight but it can be done if you have a light touch and go slowly. Let's start with a picture of the components: The repeatability of the windage adjustment depends on a good fit of the stud (a) in the hole (A), a good sliding fit between the rear lip (b) and the rear radius (B), full engagement of the windage pinion threads (c) with the windage rack (C), and the tension of the pinion spring (d). The objective in tuning the sight is to eliminate play and binding. First step is to tighten up the stud/hole fit. If you have a machine shop you can fit a bushing after opening up the hole with an end mill, perfectly indexed. If not, peening the top of the stud until it binds, then lapping with fine compound (600 grit) will work for a while. Once the stud is a good fit in the hole, put the sight together without the pinion assembly and tighten up the lip-radius fit (b-B) by tapping the lip in toward the radius with a soft brass or copper hammer at x-x. Test for binding by swiveling the movable base from side to side between taps. When it starts to bind, apply some compound and lap it smooth. Repeat the tapping and lapping until there is full contact throughout the normal range of movement, no slop and no binding. Clean off the abrasive, stone any burrs on the opposing conical surfaces of the pinion and its seat, make sure the pinion spring (d) is not weak or collapsed (if it is, get a new pinion - they're cheap). Lube everything that makes contact with moly or graphite grease. Assemble the sight and center it. Try to wiggle the movable assembly left and right with very little force to observe any slop. The last few thousandths of side play are sometimes impossible to remove without a new pinion. Don't worry about them. If there is more than that, try peening the stud again. Now push the movable base hard to the right against the tension of the pinion spring. It should return itself to the original position without binding. If not, take it apart and lap some more. Be sure to clean out all the lapping compound. Any tapping and peening has to be done very gently with a light, smooth hammer. The steel of the sight components is pretty soft and moves easily. Most components except the fixed base are widely available. If your '03 is in completely original condition, don't peen the stud - use the bushing in the hole on a spare movable assembly and keep the original assembly safe and unaltered. If you don't like the small peep, get some spares and ream (or drill) them to sizes you like. It's easy to change them out. |
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lutthier |
Re: How would I correctly use the 1903 sight? | ||
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Go Back to the posts on page 11. Look for my handle in the right hand column and you will see the graphics
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Parashooter |
Manual page, plus sight tuning post, complete. | ||
![]() It isn't easy to tighten up a worn or sloppy '03 rear sight but it can be done if you have a light touch and go slowly. Let's start with a picture of the components: ![]() The repeatability of the windage adjustment depends on a good fit of the stud (a) in the hole (A), a good sliding fit between the rear lip (b) and the rear radius (B), full engagement of the windage pinion threads (c) with the windage rack (C), and the tension of the pinion spring (d). The objective in tuning the sight is to eliminate play and binding. First step is to tighten up the stud/hole fit. If you have a machine shop you can fit a bushing after opening up the hole with an end mill, perfectly indexed. If not, peening the top of the stud until it binds, then lapping with fine compound (600 grit) will work for a while. Once the stud is a good fit in the hole, put the sight together without the pinion assembly and tighten up the lip-radius fit (b-B) by tapping the lip in toward the radius with a soft brass or copper hammer at x-x. Test for binding by swiveling the movable base from side to side between taps. When it starts to bind, apply some compound and lap it smooth. Repeat the tapping and lapping until there is full contact throughout the normal range of movement, no slop and no binding. Clean off the abrasive, stone any burrs on the opposing conical surfaces of the pinion and its seat, make sure the pinion spring (d) is not weak or collapsed (if it is, get a new pinion - they're cheap). Lube everything that makes contact with moly or graphite grease. Assemble the sight and center it. Try to wiggle the movable assembly left and right with very little force to observe any slop. The last few thousandths of side play are sometimes impossible to remove without a new pinion. Don't worry about them. If there is more than that, try peening the stud again. Now push the movable base hard to the right against the tension of the pinion spring. It should return itself to the original position without binding. If not, take it apart and lap some more. Be sure to clean out all the lapping compound. Any tapping and peening has to be done very gently with a light, smooth hammer. The steel of the sight components is pretty soft and moves easily. Most components except the fixed base are widely available. If your '03 is in completely original condition, don't peen the stud - use the bushing in the hole on a spare movable assembly and keep the original assembly safe and unaltered. If you don't like the small peep, get some spares and ream (or drill) them to sizes you like. It's easy to change them out. |
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reddogge |
Re: Manual page, plus sight tuning post, complete. | ||
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Or you could do like I did with my first one and shoot for a year with it in the battle postition and complain it shot very high at 200 yards.
Then I asked here and someone clued me in to raise the sight bar. Wa-La. |
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DickTracy1953 |
Re: Manual page, plus sight tuning post, complete. | ||
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I was wondering as to how the peep, combat peep, and notched leaf combination came about. Mostly I use the ladder peep sight but don't mind shooting off the front post when the combat sight is used for quick shots. When would a fella try his hand with the notched leaf sight. Is there something that I've missed here.
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Parashooter |
Re: Manual page, plus sight tuning post, complete. | ||
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Essentially, the peep is for bullseye target work (something very important to soldiers back in Buffington's day, since they sometimes received monetary
incentives for high scores).
The battle sight is for quick shooting at unknown distances and when there isn't time to raise and adjust the leaf. The lower notch on the drift slide (at the base of the triangular field) is for combat use when the distance is known, and isn't so long that the slide has reached the upper limit of its travel. It gives a much larger field of view than the peep - useful in poor light and for multiple targets. The upper notch on the drift slide is for distances beyond the adjustment range of the lower notch (above about 2500 yards). Finally, some sights have a fixed notch on the top of the leaf for something like 2800 yards (presumably with M1906 Ball ammo). All told, the sight is a marvel of complexity - guaranteed to confuse the recruits.
Last Edited By: Parashooter
04/16/08 10:14 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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stantheman1986 |
Re: Manual page, plus sight tuning post, complete. | ||
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I just keep mine set with the "peep" at 100 yds. That way you are basically covered from 100-250 yards...300 being the limit of most shooting ranges.
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T OHeir |
Re: How would I correctly use the 1903 sight? | ||
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Is it a 1903 or a 1903A3? Different sight. I don't know if this'll help, but yo likely want it anyway. Note the need for the provided UN and PW.
www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ |
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Michael Jon Littman |
Re: How would I correctly use the 1903 sight? | ||
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The rear mounted sights on the M903A3 and M1 rifles are SO much more functional that it is incredible. I reckon when you are shooting at bullseyes with 20 year-old eyes the M1903 sight is OK but the idea of making snap/combat shots with my aging eyes makes me wince in anticipation!
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oldrgr |
Re: How would I correctly use the 1903 sight? | ||
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At Christmas I'll be playing with both my new CMP toys, M-1 and O3A3.
I was trained on the M-14 and later the M-16 series during my 27 year stay with Uncle Sam. Anyone know what the approximate setting, i.e. how many clicks up to set the elevation on the rear peep sights (probably different for each rifle), for 25 yard zero then a 250 meter battle sight zero? I second the motion on how much easier the peep sights are to use - for us old fuds with aging eyes! Thanks. Bob |
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Captain Emo |
try this | ||
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Personally, I suggest better eyes!
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HoosierDaddy |
Re: try this | ||
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I only moved this post here from another.
CDR Xfire wrote this excellent tutorial. The link is to an article that I wrote several years ago, for a reader that was having difficulty with an 03A3. It may not be helpful if you're shooting an 03. Like the 03A3, front sight blades for the 03 came in various heights. I don't have any specific drawing information handy on the range of heights. In the picture the blade on the left is an 03A3 "A" blade, on the right is an '03 blade, and if you look close, you can make out the ".400" height marking. ![]() At the armory, during targeting, an attempt would be made to select the height of the front sight so the point of impact would match the markings on the rear sight as close as possible, with service ball ammunition. At the short sight radius of the '03, a difference in height of .005" will move your point of impact one minute-of-angle (MOA), or 1" at 100 yards, 2" at 200 yards, &tc. The rear sight of the '03 is continuously adjustable for both windage and elevation, so you should be able to get a good zero with just about any ammunition. The slides on my '03's can be lowered slightly below the 100 yard mark. Making precise changes in elevation is difficult without one of these, though: ![]() This is Ray Brandes' replica of an O'Hare micrometer, which was an indispensible accessory for shooting the '03 on the target range in it's heyday. You can purchase one here: www.ray-vin.com/frsights.htm If you are at all serious about hitting what you aim at, I can highly recommend this widget. If you have difficulty seeing through the aperture, it can be opened up quite a bit and still meet the "as-issued" dimensions. Service rifle (not "match rifle") rear sight slides were made with apertures from .040" through .090". Slides were marked on the front face (away from the shooter) with a single numeral to identify the size: Numeral 4 was .040", numeral 5 was .050", &tc. The "standard" size was initially the No. 5, but this was later changed to the No. 6. When the rifles were packed for shipment, all of the rifles in the case would have the "standard" aperture slide installed, but an assortment of "alternate size" aperture slides was packed in the crate (see Brophy). When rifles were returned for depot overhaul, those with No. 5 apertures had the apertures reamed out to No.6; the numeral 5 was "X'd" out, and a numeral 6 was stamped on the aperture slide. Most of the WW II production aperture slides were unmarked, but they seem to be a nominal No. 6 (RTL may be able to verify). I have a few No.7 and No. 8 marked slides, and I can see the front sight and target much better with the larger apertures. I would not alter a marked aperture slide, but I have bought a few spares of the unmarked WW II aperture slides, and carefully reamed out the aperture with a rat-tail jeweler's file from the front of the aperture by turning the file counter-clockwise, so it won't tend to advance and jam. (BTW, Paddy O'Hare and others made a special reamer for doing this, and it was sold on Commercial Row at Perry in the 20's and 30's. It was just one more accessory that no serious '03 shooter could live without.) The No. 8 size works best for me, so when the opening is about .080", I put a little cold blue on a round toothpick to blacken the aperture. If you don't do this, light reflections in the aperture itself will cause you fits. FWIW, Army Ordnance never had a "No. 10" aperture slide; No. 9 was as high as they went. The special configuration USMC rear sight aperture slide had a .100" aperture, and could be called a "No. 10", but it wasn't Ordnance "issue". If you like to use the battle sight ... that skinny little notch with the ladder down ... you will shoot way high, as the "battle zero" with M1906 ammo was about 547 yards. In the National Matches, and in the military qualifcation course with the '03, all firing at 200 and 300 yards had to be done with the battle sight. Old timers told me of holding on the very bottom of the target frame at 200 yards to get "5". You can improve the situation today by substituting an 03A3 front sight blade for the shorter '03 blade. You'll have to file a bit off the bottom of the 03A3 blade to get it to fit in the '03 moveable base (the red lines in the first pic show this). The range markings on the rear sight ladder will be way off for service ball ammunition, but the "battlesight zero" will be about 100-150 yards, depending on what ammuntion you are using. And if you get one of the Ray-Vin micrometers, you can just ignore the range markings on the sight, anyway ... you just count clicks on the mike when you use the ladder "up". Are you confused yet?? Resp'y, Bob S. |
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Doug Bowser |
Windage backlash | ||
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On all the 1903 rifles I have owned, there was backlash in the windage on the rear sight. I always finished my windage adjustments to the right. If I had to
adjust to the left, I would go 3 witness marks to the left, past the desired adjustment and go to the right to the proper witness mark. Those of you that have
1903 rifles, adjust the sight to the left and try to move it from side to side. Then adjust the sight to the right and try it again. You will see what I mean.
I have a 1903-A3 now because I can't see the blasted tiny peep sight on the 1903..
Doug Bowser |
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JONES.k98kpage |
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soldiers usually are 18 yrs old.and thatt sight is simular to the trapdoor sight when soldiers aimed.I never had trouble with the sight.I have a low # 1903
dated 1914.
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