the deadliest cartridge

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infowars	the deadliest cartridge	Lead	[-]
Posts: 9 (01/06/09 04:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I'm not sure where I would put this but I guess it doesn't matter if I put it here. which cartridge do you think has killed the most people ? , I think it is the 7.92x57mm mauser , for many reasons: its was in both world wars , it was used in every rifle and machine gun that fired a full rifle cartridge by the germans, the battle of the Somme and operation overlord , the overwhelming majority of deaths on the allies side in both battles being from german machine gun fire, and I think death tolls from ww1 and ww2 battles that involved the germans were greatly influenced by the 7.92x57mm. what is your opinion
NC Cruffler		#1	[-]
Posts: 455 (01/06/09 07:53 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	7.62X54R doing the job without interuption since 1891. True, the 8X57 has been around since 1888, but which country now produces issue weapons for it? Dave Dave Green, NRA Life Member since 1973
Stonefly70809	The 7.62x39	#2	[-]
Posts: 440 (01/06/09 08:42 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I vote for the 7.62x39. That thing has not been around as long, but it is everywhere. Everyone not NATO seems to be using the AK as a main weapon. Are their light machine guns for it too? Freedom is not free. The price is very high and it never goes on sale.
nothernug		#3	[-]
Posts: 11105 (01/06/09 11:26 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This is prime fodder for the Parallax View methinks. Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
eb in oregon		#4	[-]
Posts: 607 (01/06/09 11:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have to vote for 7.92x57mm mauser. The carnage wrecked by this cartridge during WWI and WWII is unsurpassed to this day. This includes all the wars in Asia, Africa, Europe, the Balkan countries, etc, etc. Think of the thousands and thousands mowed down at the Somme, Verdun, on the Eastern Front, then think of all the other little wars following during the cold war years. No question here. Eric "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776
7GREEN		#5	[-]
Posts: 494 (01/07/09 12:55 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would vote for the 7.62x54R. Two world wars, the Russo-Japanese War, the Korean War, the Chinese Civil War, Vietnam.
RLMbassist		#6	[-]
Posts: 15 (01/07/09 01:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would have to cast my vote for the 7.62x39. While it has only been around for about 60 years, it has caused quite a stir. Even with missing both world wars, think of the smaller but more frequent conflicts it has been deployed in, a few in which both sides used this cartridge such as the Russian invasion of Afganistan, the Iran/Iraq war and the wars around the former Yugoslavia. Enter in the continent of Africa. Numerous civil wars and cases of genocide have claimed tens of thousands. Rwanda alone accounted for 80-100k deaths in 1994. The AK is not the only culprit either, you can add the SKS and AK-based MG's into the mix. The 7.62x39 is the gift that keeps on giving. With the millions of cheap AK's flooding the world market it will be a long time before it is discontinued. The GRANDFATHER of the final person killed with the 7.62x39 probably still has not been born. Plus there was a little know conflict in Vietnam.... I would put the 8x57 in at second and the .303Brit and 7.62x54R in a tie for 3rd. Randy
eagle7		#7	[-]
Posts: 3713 (01/07/09 03:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would go with the 7.9x57mm Mauser, with the caveat that the 7.62x39 will one day surpass it. I did not go with the 7.62x54R because the primary battlefield killing machine of both the Russians/Soviets in WWI and WWII was artillery. By the crucial year of 1943 the Soviets were very heavily equipped with artillery. Why waste time with rifles and machineguns when you can pulverize the enemy with artillery? Another factor is the heavy use of PPSh41 submachines rather than 7.62x54R rifles and MGs. By the middle of WWII Soviet rifle regiments had battalions of soldiers armed solely with PPSh41s. Likewise during the Chinese Civil War many (most?) of the small arms were not Mosin Nagants and MaximGorky 7.62x54 MGs; they were export and domestically produced 7.9mm Mausers, captured Japanese small arms, RC Mausers from the USSR, and American LendLease. The Germans integrated machineguns into their defensive doctrine better than their rivals in WWI. Since they were on the defensive for most of the war they amassed a very high kill ratio with MGs and rifles (consider the Battle of the Frontiers and the Somme). In WWII the Germans excelled in in the tactical use of LMGs down to the platoon level, and they fielded two excellent weapons in that capacity, the MG34 and MG42. Another thing to consider is that much of the genocide committed on the Eastern Front prior to the establishment of concentration camps with gas chamber facilities was done with MG34 and MG42 LMGs. The number of Jews and Slavs liquidated with 7.9mm rifles and LMGs probably total more than 500,000.
Bryan 45		#8	[-]
Posts: 2381 (01/07/09 04:06 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	What were the millions of Soviet citizens that were executed by their own government killed with?
John Moses		#9	[-]
Posts: 115 (01/07/09 06:11 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've heard it said that the Maxim has killed more men than any other of mans creations, including the atom bomb. I'd say German Maxims spitting 7.9 & British Maxims spitting 303 really ran the numbers up in WW1. Bryan makes a good point. If the Russians used the 7.62x54 for executions, it would probably win(?). The 7.62x39 isn't in the running IMHO. There just haven't been that many combat casualties since MAD became policy. I lean towards the 7.9, but the Chinese used the 7.62x54 for years. Gee, I don't know.
7GREEN		#10	[-]
Posts: 497 (01/07/09 07:57 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Those Soviet citizens done away with by their own government usually got a Mosin Nagant revolver round in the head. "Nine grams" was the colloquial expression.
eagle7		#11	[-]
Posts: 3717 (01/07/09 09:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Most Soviet citizens were worth more to the communist state as slave labor. It was usually only higher ranking party members that fell out of favor who got their skulls ventilated with a Nagant revolver (or M96 Mauser pistols as was the case with the Czar's family). Stalin disposed of at least 12 million Kulaks in the Ukraine in the late 1920s by merely seizing all of their harvested crops and livestock. Starvation is cheaper than expending bullets. Other untold millions died in slave labor camps building new factories east of the Urals during WWII, mining gold in the Artic Circle, digging canals by hand near the Baltic, or cutting timber in Siberia.
glock40man		#12	[-]
Posts: 99 (01/07/09 10:34 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The 7.62x54r added up the butcher"s bill for sure.Everything else pales in comparison except maybe the 8mm Mauser and .303 . Used in both war and peace,this cartridge is still one of the grim reapers best friends.Here in the good old USA ,it would be the 45.
infowars		#13	[-]
Posts: 10 (01/08/09 01:18 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would have to say when it comes to rifle cartridges the 7.92x57mm , 30-06 , and the 7.62x39 have no rivals, except maybe the 7.62x54R or the 303. but for some reason I find that I have a big dislike of those cartridges. I also think the 9mm (not sure which type, probably the parabellum) is the deadliest handgun cartridge, btw I think handguns are over priced and over rated Last Edited By: infowars 01/08/09 01:53 AM. Edited 1 times.
stantheman1986		#14	[-]
Posts: 5270 (01/08/09 02:25 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I saw a dead suicide bomber once, came on the scene about 5 minutes after he caught about 50+ rounds of 7.62x39 That guy was pretty diced up! I even got some pics of the body and also managed to get a pic of one of the guys who capped him holding a Romanian AK!It looks just like my WASR-10! I won't post them here, this is a family site People are getting shot every day all over the world with the AK, we don't have any way to "rack up" this death toll but I'm pretty sure it's high.....think Africa, Asia, South America, all the crap that's going on and been going on all over the world since the 7.62x39 came into use.....right now as I type this I'm sure someone is shooting at someone else with an AK, as long as they're not shooting at Americans or our allies I honestly couldn't give a dam_....I even got shot at once by a so called "sniper" , really a guy with an AK who took a few potshots at a few of us from a rooftop over 200 yards away....good thing these guys can't shoot! The death toll of the ubiquitous 7.62x39 has got to be close to at least several hundred thousand, I would say. It's hard to pick a "deadliest cartridge" but it's gotta be up there. As far as the "DEADLIEST round" as in what round is the most likely to ruin your day, I vote for .50 BMG, I've got a story for that one but I'll save that for another time
eagle7		#15	[-]
Posts: 3721 (01/08/09 01:40 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The main problem with assessing the historical lethality of the 7.62x39mm round is the lack of accurate casualty reports in many of the places it was used. No nobody has done the math to assess casualty numbers in many of the conflicts where the AK47/AKM/SKS/RPK small arms were used. Since the 1960s Africa has been plagued with bloody conflicts in Nigeria/Biafra, Ethiopia, Eitrea, Darfur, Sierra Leone, Angola, Mozambique, Liberia, Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Somalia, Chad, ....the list goes on and on. Due to the endless chaos in Subsahara Africa, it is probably impossible to accurately tally a deathtoll, or the means in which casualties were killed. The same situation exists in Central and South America with continuing marxist insurrections, narco-terrorism, and government death squads. Unlike the 7.62x39, the 7.9x57mm casualties are much easier to estimate. Obsessive record keeping by the Nazis has been a good tool to assess 7.9x57mm casualties in the Final Solution. For example, the Germans maintained a record of Jews, communist party members, and other targeted groups that were shot by roving einsatzkommando liquidation squads during Operation Barbarossa. A good example of this are the einsatzgruppe records for Lithuania in the summer of 1941. Of the 207,000 Jewish Lithuanians, 102,000 were shot from June to September 1941. There are also detailed records of total persons shot by various Nazi paramilitary organizations and local militias in White Russia, the Ukraine, previously Soviet occupied eastern Poland, Croatia, etc, etc...
RLMbassist		#16	[-]
Posts: 18 (01/08/09 02:38 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I may be biased but I'm sure the 7.62x39 will have the gruesome title soon if it doesn't already. I spent my service time in the Air Force, stateside, wrenching on GE engines, and sending them to the Persian Gulf (the first time). I did have 2 personal friends that were shot with the 7.62x39, both Army. The older friend took a round in the shoulder in the first war, he helped me move across town about 7 years after his wounding. The younger friend was hit in the second war.......he is in Arlington right now.
FLAPJACKHAPPY		#17	[-]
Posts: 128 (01/09/09 02:33 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would have to agree with the 7.62x39 and since the ak-47 's inception if there is a conflict in the world anywhere you bet the ak is the tool being used in it. With over 50+ million produced plus all of the variants it is hard to deny the impact .
infowars		#18	[-]
Posts: 11 (01/10/09 01:38 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	true but you have to consider that many ak variants do not chamber the 7.62x39mm
stantheman1986		#19	[-]
Posts: 5284 (01/10/09 03:50 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	? The amount of AK74's out there doesn't even compare to the number of AK47's that have been cranked out, it's a relatively small number. Of all the hundreds of 47's I've seen in use, I have seen maybe 2 actual 74's. Outside of Russia and maybe some former East Bloc countries they aren't all that popular, just because the 5.45 isn't nearly as widely available. Anyway, the last and final vote: LEAST deadliest cartridge- 7.5 Swiss! I don't think a single soldier has probably ever fallen to this round The K31, the greatest rifle that has never seen real combat Last Edited By: stantheman1986 01/10/09 03:57 AM. Edited 1 times.
m1 talker		#20	[-]
Posts: 6383 (01/10/09 11:37 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	And wasn't there one incident where a village was right on the border between Switzerland and Germany and the Germans were harrassing the Swiss population and the Swiss fired on the Germans, taking several casualties? Curt