Should I do it? Burned gun

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GunGuy10	Should I do it? Burned gun	Lead	[-]
Posts: 9 (02/19/09 05:16 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Well i was just looking on line at center fire systems and saw Yugo 24/47. The guns had caught fire and burned, it said and they look like it. But the guns are only $30. So would i be taking a risk buy using one of these. I know the receiver is heat treated at the factory and I'm wondering wold it compromise it sense heat has been put to it again? Oh yeah and is $30 a good price for one? Here's the link. http://www.centerfiresyst...verpartmaugun-bblrec.aspx
WVchuck		#1	[-]
Posts: 11777 (02/19/09 07:44 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Maybe for parts, but I certainy would not use it for shooting. No one could say just how badly that receiver has been altered in regard to heat treatment. Parts yes, shooter no. (IMO)
scooter222		#2	[-]
Posts: 4997 (02/19/09 10:17 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	100% in agreement with WVchuck. Parts only. The barrel and receiver should be scraped or made so they cannot be used by someone who doesn't know they were in a fire.
m1 talker		#3	[-]
Posts: 6513 (02/19/09 10:35 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I seem to recall having the same discussion here on PB's forums several years ago and the general, if not overwhelming consensus was to use it for parts only. I don't know if anyone could do a modern day test on the hardness of the receiver and barrel or not to tell you whether or not they were serviceable. If so, it would probably cost a lot more than what a good rifle of that type was worth. Back not too many years ago, I knew a guy who kept a nice condition pre 1964 Winchester model 94 in .30-30 caliber hanging in his gun rack in the rear window of his pickup truck. The truck was a 1967 Chevy half ton and they had the gas tank inside the cab behind he rear seat. Well, one night the truck caught on fire from what they blamed on an electrical short under the hood, as he had been having electrical problems with it. Luckily he had it parked outside, so it did not burn his garage, but when the contents of that gas tank ignited right below where the rifle was hanging, it really did a good job on the rifle! Not a speck of wood was left on it, and the lever was distorted from the heat, and the action had welded itself shut. That rifle made one more bit of noise before it was forgotten about and that was the thump it made when it hit the bottom of his garbage can. Curt
GunGuy10		#4	[-]
Posts: 10 (02/20/09 04:44 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yeah you guys are right.Not going to get one not worth it. Thanks for the input.
painterjohn		#5	[-]
Posts: 30 (03/01/09 05:00 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Pictured rifle is a VZ-24..and no, you dont want that junk..THEY dont even know what they have much less its condition of safety..$30+shipping what a joke..should of let the fire burn a little longer..even added some coal...I hope one of these doesnt get reblued and sold to the guy next to me at the range...risking someones eyes or life for 30 stinkin dollars when insurance would have paid for these rifles already...disgusting And dont think thier just selling parts...cause that recievers gonna have to go to an FFL
myrifle		#6	[-]
Posts: 38 (03/08/09 12:32 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The bolt's worth $30. * This Is My Rifle *
painterjohn		#7	[-]
Posts: 31 (03/08/09 07:43 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Add says "may or may not have bolt" A bolt is worth more like $50 ..A pin if you can find it is no less than $20 more like $30+shipping..An Intermediate Length bolt body Complete W/pin would go for between $50-$75 ..If you can find it ... I know some folks will tell us a story about how "around here I found a perfect bolt for such&such amount last summer" .. But.. if you cant point us to a Parts Supplier or Auction site that stocks them, your bit of good fortune is pretty meaningless for the rest of us Having said that..The point is that after a... FIRE... the Heat Treatment on the parts is in doubt...If your salvaged bolt was a little to close to the center of the fire and the locking lugs fail when you fire that Nice hot Turkish round(or perhaps the 2nd 3rd Etc.) you will be paying a very heavy price..As will very possibly the people around you.. Oh also...Pictured rifle is a VZ-24...Full length action..Wont work in your Yugo unless its a 24/52c or K98/48 Isnt there someone here that has some Proffesional or Academic knowledge on Heat treatment that can explain the dangers involed here? Folks I hope you will do as I did and write to this company and let them know just how fast someone will sue if they are injured because the person next to them makes a bomb out of their rifle using these suspect parts..I bring my kids to the range sometimes.. I'll bet I'm not the only one worried Last Edited By: painterjohn 03/08/09 07:49 AM. Edited 1 times.
WVchuck		#8	[-]
Posts: 11812 (03/08/09 09:23 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I was thinking of non-critical parts when I wrote that out earlier, bands, sights, screws, etc; if you got a bolt, possibly the extractor, plunger, firing pin, springs, follower, floorplate and ejector. Those parts combined are worth more than $30 if they'll fit your rifle and aren't too badly damaged, but you're taking a chance on condition. I still stand on the statement of not trying to make a shooter out of it. PJ is correct in reagrd to the bolt itself, along with the receiver/barrel. Potential face grenade if the heat treat has been altered.
Gabreski 1st FJ		#9	[-]
Posts: 203 (03/11/09 10:58 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hardness testing isnt that difficult. I worked at a hydraulics factory and we had a heat treat facility there and had many different types of parts with different recipes based on their function. Rockwell testing is only part of the process. Its basically a diamond tipped pin thats pressed into a piece of metal and a guage reads the depth of the "divot" made. The shallower the depth the harder the surface. BUT we also cut the parts and polished them until the crystalline structure of the metal could be seen and measured the depth of the hardness as well. If the springs in that rifle have lost their tension the heat treat is probably toast. It can be re-treated successfully but without knowing the actual specs its a dangerous and potentially fatal crapshoot. I say weld the reciever and barrel and get it for the small parts if you need them. But you'd still have to polish and re-blue them anyway. Not worth it IMHO. "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams Last Edited By: Gabreski 1st FJ 03/12/09 07:22 PM. Edited 1 times.
nothernug		#10	[-]
Posts: 11261 (03/20/09 11:11 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Since there doesn't seem to be a solid consensus, and I can't understand why someone would want to take such chances with a questionable part, I am going to move this to the Parallax View. There I expect we will find somebody with the detailed technical knowledge requested. Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
Rustybore		#11	[-]
Posts: 849 (03/20/09 05:19 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	There is a place in Utah that does heat treating on receivers. It used to cost $50. That would be one way of insuring the receiver could be used again. Without doing that, I don't think I would buy one of those rifles. If the receiver is bad, it being the thickest part, I'm sure the rest of the metal would be suspect. Kevin in Or.
m1 talker		#12	[-]
Posts: 6626 (03/20/09 06:17 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	OK, tell me something. If that is possible to do, then why can't the low serial numbered 1903's be subjected to the same test to see if they are safe to shoot? Curt
beanstrung		#13	[-]
Posts: 5138 (03/20/09 08:29 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'd certainly "pass" on these. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand? Joel 3:9-10
Rustybore		#14	[-]
Posts: 851 (03/21/09 10:54 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	m1 talker, an interesting question. I don't see why a person couldn't test the low numbered receivers for hardness. The test leaves a little mark, but it could be done where it can't be seen. I not a metalurgy person, but can a receiver such as those have a different hardness in different areas of the receiver, or would it be the same throughout the receiver? Did that question make sense? Kevin in Or. Last Edited By: Rustybore 03/21/09 10:40 PM. Edited 1 times.
m1 talker		#15	[-]
Posts: 6627 (03/21/09 08:14 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yes, it made sense. But it still leaves the question unanswered. Curt
Highpower		#16	[-]
Posts: 952 (03/22/09 12:41 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Rustybore wrote: m1 talker, an interesting question. I don't see why a person couldn't test the low numbered receivers for hardness. The test leaves a little mark, but it could be done where it can't be seen. I not a metalurgy person, but can a receiver such as those have a different hardness in different areas of the receiver, or would it be the same throughout the receiver? Did that question make sense? Kevin in Or. From Hatcher's Notebook: So yes - these receivers do have different levels of hardness between the exterior and interior. I found it interesting that General Hatcher devised a very simple hardness test. --------------------------- He who lives by the sword, should go out and get a really nice sword.
jjk308		#17	[-]
Posts: 2918 (03/23/09 10:53 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reheat treating one of these rifles isn't something I'd trust my life to. For some FAQs on the art see this blacksmith/bladesmith website: http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/heat_faq_index.htm One quote from it: "Blacksmith style heat treating is about as close to alchemy or magic as you can get." Rifle heat treating was popular some 50 years ago and fell out of favor when word got around about receivers shattering. Also the lug area of Mauser bolts are very hard. I'm not sure if they are surface hardened or heat treated but I wouldn't trust one that had been in a fire.
RichardWV		#18	[-]
Posts: 274 (03/27/09 01:01 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yes the testing equipment and techniques are readily available to determine the alloy and apply an appropriate heat treatment to return it to a usable receiver, at which point you would have hundreds of dollars invested in a $50 (at best) receiver that is not as nice or trustworthy as one on a rifle that didn't go through a fire. The highest and best use of these is to strip them of small non-critical parts and use the rest as a tomato stake. Considering the risk involved in the receivers and bolts having been damaged (and no two were likely affected the same), I'm shocked that anyone would sell them for fear that someone would rebuild them and later have an accident. Like the low number Springfields, any accident will be attributed to a weak receiver whether it has anything to do with it or not. I just find the whole concept disturbing.
LeviZmkII		#19	[-]
Posts: 4 (04/02/09 02:21 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	When I was in grade school, my father had a friend whoms house burned and he gave my father the surviving guns. There was an AK-47 and Ruger 22LR MKII. Anyhows, the wood wasent fully burned off and the springs still had a bit to them, my father guted both units, polished/reblued/new spring and grips...The AK has been an excelent gun for years of blasting. The Ruger is OK, its shoots but the chamber has some nasty pitting so it needs a scrubbing after 40 or 50 rounds LZ in the non-class 3 Peoples Republic of Iowa
stantheman1986		#20	[-]
Posts: 5354 (04/02/09 07:25 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	There are too many variables, I have seen guns that were just "heat damaged" i.e. hung above a fire place and the high heat just darkened the wood but the gun did not "burn". Otherwise, these rifles may have roasted for hours in a fire and are thus ruined, if the company selling them had any sense they would torch cut the receivers and barrels and so thus make them useless except maybe for barrel bands and sights. A worst they could break even on labor and take the loss of the rifles by selling the usable front sight blades and rear sights, as well as stock metal for maybe $10 a set. I wouldn't trust any part of the bolt if it had been burned.