Turk usage ?

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bobbo.collectorguns35625	Turk usage ?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 15 (04/03/09 10:10 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None This maybe a dumb question. Any of these turk rifles ever been in combat at any time? mostly wondering about the M-39 I know Nothting Last Edited By: bobbo 04/03/09 10:13 AM. Edited 2 times.
MasterChief		#1	[-]
Posts: 999 (04/03/09 12:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My "1903/33". Veteran of WWI, Armenian Genocide and 1st Repulsion of the Noah's Ark Hunters.
Carl Gustav		#2	[-]
Posts: 3346 (04/06/09 10:50 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I don't think those marked K.Kale saw any action since production started in 1939 and the Turks have pretty much avoided in any major conflicts since then with the exception that they served in the Korean War where I think they may have been using Garands. Those more knowledgable than I can correct me. Carl
bobbo.collectorguns35625		#3	[-]
Posts: 49 (04/21/09 08:10 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If it is dated 1933 on the receiver how can it be a veteran of WW1? A victim is an unarmed citizen . Carry
eagle7		#4	[-]
Posts: 3904 (04/21/09 11:37 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It's a Model 1903 Turkish Mauser that was made in Germany as part of one of two contracts, one from 1903 -07, or the second contract around 1910. Between 1932 and 1938 these rifles, as well as the Model 1893 Turk Mausers, were converted from 7.65x53mm to 7.92x57 Mauser chambering. During this timeframe the Turks also rehashed many of the Gew88s in their inventory. The receivers were often scrubbed of the original markings and stamped with the date the conversion was done. I have a Model 1903 restamped 1937, for example. The M1903 and M1893 Turk Mausers were used in the Italo-Turkish War of 1911-12, the First and Second Balkan Wars 1912-13, and the First World War. They were also used during the Armenian Genocide of 1915, and to fight the Greek invasion of the new Turkish Republic in 1920-22. The various Gew88s and Gew98s given to Turkey as German military aid during WWI from 1917 were also used in combat. The Czech import Vz98/22 Mausers and the Model 38s saw action during the long conflict between Kurdish rebels and the Turkish army. They may have also seen some action early in the Korean War with the Turkish troops, especially during the great Red Chinese winter offensive of November 1950- January 1951. IIRC, the Turks got Garands after the UN front lines stabilized south of Seoul in the spring of 1951.
bobbo.collectorguns35625		#5	[-]
Posts: 50 (04/21/09 11:47 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for the info interesting. I did not know that. A victim is an unarmed citizen . Carry
gil		#6	[-]
Posts: 892 (04/21/09 03:15 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Eagle 7 covered the history of the rifles quite well as did master chief. Armenian genocide was the worst case/early 20th century case of genocide/ethnic cleansing but hardly the only mass tragedy so common when tribalism takes charge. I have often wondered if the Turks used bolt actions at the begining of the Korean war? My step father, a career Marine and three war combat vet stated that the Turks were terrific soldiers, and that the North Koreans were terrified of them. High praise from a member of the First Marines. I have a heavily used 98/29 "Persian" that came with a broken stock that is marked by CIA as a "turkish mauser". I am quite certain that it was taken from a fallen Peshmerga (sic) Kurdish freedom fighter. Iran had its own problems with the Kurdish minority, but they did provide arms to them, hoping they would fight against the Iraquis and perhaps the turks. gil Last Edited By: gil 04/21/09 03:20 PM. Edited 1 times.
bobbo.collectorguns35625		#7	[-]
Posts: 53 (04/22/09 07:43 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I was thinking the K.Kale looks just the same as a Gew98 which was the main battle rifle of the German army in WW1 right. If you put the two next to each other the only differance is the reciever stamp and the front barrel band, finger grooves and rear site. But recievers look identical. This is my observation looking at the two in pictures. The turkish 1903 and 1893 both have the notch out in the recievers. Can you clear this up why the M-38 K.Kale are not veteran of WW1. A victim is an unarmed citizen . Carry Last Edited By: bobbo 04/22/09 08:00 AM. Edited 1 times.
eagle7		#8	[-]
Posts: 3908 (04/22/09 10:57 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Production of the M38 K.Kale began twenty years after WWI ended. BTW, I did some research on the Turkish army during the Korean War after my post on this topic, and it appears that the M38 was not used in Korea. The first contingent of Turkish troops arrived in Korea on 25 October 1950, and the first thing they did was exchange their Turkish equipment and weapons for American Army issue. These troops received a few weeks of weapons training and orientation by the US Army before they went into combat. They were issued Garands, BARs, Thompsons, bazookas, etc, etc.... If you do a Goggle Image search for "Turkish soldiers, Korea" you will see Turks in American uniforms carrying American weapons, and riding in American vehicles. There is one photo of the first Turkish advance party landing in Korea (Pusan??) and they seem to be in Turkish summer uniforms, and appear to be wearing old fashioned Mauser ammo pouches.
bobbo.collectorguns35625		#9	[-]
Posts: 54 (04/22/09 12:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	But are the K.Kale recievers really gew 98 recievers just scrubed and restamped. I don't get this K.Kale thing. Help me to understand so I can explain to others when asked. A victim is an unarmed citizen . Carry
eagle7		#10	[-]
Posts: 3910 (04/22/09 02:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think you're thinking of the 1954 ATF marked Turkish Mausers that were rebuilt Gew98s. Check out this site, it's got lots of excellent info; http://www.turkmauser.com/models.aspx Last Edited By: beanstrung 04/22/09 09:29 PM. Edited 1 times.

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