I refinished a refurb 30/91

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bobbo.collectorguns35625	I refinished a refurb 30/91	Lead	[-]
Posts: 28 (04/10/09 07:52 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I hated the refurb finish it scratched easy looked cheap. It has a Laminated stock very good shooter. I used tung oil and and after the last coat I used 0000 wool to remove the gloss. I know Nothting
Pahtu		#1	[-]
Posts: 2229 (04/10/09 12:12 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"I know Nothting" We know.... Pahtu.
bobbo.collectorguns35625		#2	[-]
Posts: 31 (04/10/09 01:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You know what? I know Nothting
Pahtu		#3	[-]
Posts: 2231 (04/10/09 04:41 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	BTW - glad you stopped by Read in small red print at the top of the header page. I am just a humble member here who appreciates all military rifles in their original state. Your rifle, your biz to do with it what you will. To save time and space, read these links I will post from another forum & understand why some folks (including me...) do not like refinished military rifles. Enjoy, Pahtu. http://forums.gunboards.c...7&highlight=refinish http://forums.gunboards.c...0&highlight=refinish http://forums.gunboards.c...4&highlight=refinish http://forums.gunboards.c...4&highlight=refinish http://forums.gunboards.c...5&highlight=refinish http://forums.gunboards.c...0&highlight=refinish http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=61511&highlight=refinish Last Edited By: Pahtu 04/10/09 04:46 PM. Edited 1 times.
bobbo.collectorguns35625		#4	[-]
Posts: 35 (04/10/09 06:27 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think a refurb with a crappy finish thats been done by some russian from it's orinagal state would also be called a refinished rifle. And I don't appreciate your smart comment either in post #1 and #3. For a Verteran Member I your rude. I know one thing. I think your a smart a--. And if you own a refub rifle. It's refinished look in a dictionary. I did not alter the rifle other than remove the shellac and give it a tung oil finish..... Oh by the way. I read the small red print it says "sporterising topics" I know Nothting Last Edited By: bobbo 04/10/09 07:32 PM. Edited 3 times.
eagle7		#5	[-]
Posts: 3875 (04/10/09 09:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It is my understanding that the Soviet factory finish during WWII was shellac. Of course the finish was of varying quality due to the incredible stress Soviet industry was under during much of the war. I doubt that Mosin Nagants retained all of that shellac finish in a prolonged field environment. I also doubt that there was much emphasis put on stock preservation of MNs in combat units.....the maintenance of the receiver, bolt, and especially the bore was the number one priority. This was the case with all the WWII armies, even the obsessive-compulsive Germans. I don't think hand rubbing boiled linseed oil into the stock was a routine task of any WWII soldier (definitely not tung oil). After WWII the Soviets refurbished millions of MNs and captured K98s. IMHO these weapons got a thick coat of shellac purely as a long term preservation aid. Shellac was a cost effective preservative finish, and any dope with a paint brush could apply it. If those mothballed guns were issued to communist militia units in a WWIII scenario, the lack of durability of the shellac stock finish would be the least of the Soviets' worries. IIRC the MN laminated stocks were post war production, and I think it's safe to say these stocks had a very short service life before they were superceded by the SKSs and AK47s. Shellac would be historically correct for these laminated stocks. Bobbo, your rifle is yours to do whatever you want to do to it, but a reddish shellac would be the historically correct finish for it. I have a number of M91/30s, and M38 and M44 carbines that were rearsenalled, and they all sport shellac finishes. I have some MNs that fell into Finn hands and they have some kind of oil/turpentine/gun oil (????) finish. In both cases I leave them be.
Renfield54		#6	[-]
Posts: 419 (04/10/09 09:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Like Pahtu said........Your rifle to do what you want. He really doesn't want to seem rude....he's simply stating what BILL would tell you about what HE allows on his site, in a nice way......and Bill doesn't support refinishing much, either...... These topics have been going on back & forth on here for the entire time I've been a member, and you've got to allow everyone their opinion, even if you don't agree with it at all. Myself.......I like the looks of your rifle, and having said so, probably wouldn't do the same to mine......a '42 Izhevsk ex-sniper.....flaking all over everything from the bad shellac job Ivan gave it.......mine's not a laminated stock, just solid wood. Nobody's here to chase you off......you can learn TONS of stuff about these fine arms just by lurking and not posting much......remember that it's just their opinion on the preservation of these rifles, and you can still do what you like, however you like......water off a duck's back, so to speak..... Those that want to see how you refinished yours will.........and those that don't............. "Dusty old helmet.....Rusty old gun......They sit in the corner and wait" ~Audie Murphy--1925-1971~
Pahtu		#7	[-]
Posts: 2233 (04/10/09 09:53 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"Due to the main focus of this site on the collecting and shooting of C&R and military surplus firearms in their collectible original configurations, sporterising topics will not be permitted in these fourms." No need to get your feathers ruffled Bobbo - Folks often get upset when other collectors do not appreciate their refinishing efforts. I have read posts made here where members don't get heartburn over bubba'd refurb 91-30's. Here is a good example of a refinished 91-30 that has a laminated stock. According to Tuco over at Gunboards, Laminated stocks are pretty much uncommon - Much more uncommon than birch stocks. Thus one more uncommon rifle that is no longer as appealing to many collectors as it should be. I am glad you are here. I do appreciate MN's with their original finish. The links I posted say it all. No need for me to beat a dead horse over again. Post a range report with your rifle, learn about it's history and enjoy. Pahtu. Last Edited By: Pahtu 04/10/09 10:51 PM. Edited 1 times.
bobbo.collectorguns35625		#8	[-]
Posts: 36 (04/10/09 11:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I agree I'm new and wet behind the hears at this. That's why I'm here. Would you guys get piped off if I return the finish to shellac? It was a new refurb which I see every day and one of the cheapest on any auction or gun shop. All my other guns I do keep in the condition I received them. I have a mosin M-39 Sako which has very little bluing if any and I will not re blue it. I have a Remington M-91 which also has a faint more brown than blue finish and I will not refinish. I don't mind being told that I did a no no. But it's how you tell me. Pahtu I felt when he responded to my post #1 he typed "I know nothing" "We know" was a rude and smart a-- answer. I'll let ride because I'm out numbered. So I apologize. I know Nothting Last Edited By: bobbo 04/10/09 11:48 PM. Edited 2 times.
bobbo.collectorguns35625		#9	[-]
Posts: 37 (04/10/09 11:51 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	On second thought I think I'm going to leave it. It's just a shooter. I know Nothting
Pahtu		#10	[-]
Posts: 2235 (04/11/09 02:15 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	No need to apologize - Yes, perhaps it was a tactless reply - We most likely all (including me) have changed the appearance of a firearm or two - Some places on the net encourage it, some magazines write stories how to accomplish it - Some places like this site try to inform folks original condition military guns are unique pieces of history & should be appreciated as they are. I have a Swedish Mauser 94-14 carbine. Wonderful barreled action - Someone cut back the forearm of the stock - Removed the buttplate and the handguard and bayonet lug. The carbine was most likely imported sometime in the 1950's & the price of these carbines was really inexpensive years ago(A friend who used to work for Sears years ago said they were 35 bucks or something like that...). A few years back I purchased the Swede carbine at a gunshop for around a hundred bucks. All matching Swedish Carbines in original condition sell nowadays for an easy $850.00 to over a $1000.00 However, this little carbine I own happens to have an SA stamp on the receiver. 900 to 1000 or so Swedish Carbines were sent to Finland to help them fight against the Russian invasion during WWII - How many were SA stamped is anybody's guess(I have been told not all Swedish war aid rifles/carbines were SA stamped) - Thus if Bubba had not messed with the carbine, I have no idea what it would be worth - A lot, as collectors have offered me at least 5 times what I paid for it. M44 carbines were made in the hundreds of thousands to millions...?(I don't have the production figures memorized... ) - Thus if many get altered, most likely the value of them drops very little both original or bubba'd. However if a altered or sportered Finnish captured SA stamped Soviet M44 was posted here.....well I would be just sick, as those one's are rare as hens teeth(I am looking for one BTW...) The point is, original condition rifles are appreciated by most collectors & most generally the original condition rifles bring better prices from informed buyers should one decide to sell later on. Enjoy this site, good people here who forgot more about MN's than I will ever know Pahtu.
m1 talker		#11	[-]
Posts: 6658 (04/11/09 09:51 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The way I look at it, it is his rifle and he can do what he pleases with it. However, if it has been permanently modified in any way, then you simply are not allowed to discuss it here on these forums. There are other forums to discuss bubba'd rifles on if you insist on talking about it. I still recall when I first joined this forum. I got slammed pretty hard over a Finnish M-39 that had a lousy trigger and I wanted to improve the trigger on it. I suddenly became aware of just what these forums were about and my whole attitude about milsurps changed drastically. Yes, I was once upon a time, back in the 1960's, a bubba. We could pick out a milsurp rifle out of a barrel at the hardware store or in front of the local Sears catalog store and go in and pay the $20 to $30 for it and haul it home. Nobody thought much of these old military rifles back then, but for a kid, it was a way to obtain a nice hunting rifle a lot cheaper than any commercial rifle was of a similiar caliber. We weren't a bit afraid of cutting down the stock on a British .303 and a lot of other things that I get sick about just thinking about today. Now I am totally the opposite and all my rifles must be in 100% pure stock as issued condition or I won't own them. I have only one exception, and that is my dad's old Rock Island 1903 that used to put food on the table for us when we were kids. He had it cut down and bubba'd back in 1948, a year before I was born. It now sports a Lyman 48 aperature sight on the receiver and a front site tall enough to gut a deer with. The sentimental value of it is very high with me, even if it was bubbad in the past. As that M-39 goes, I don't shoot it any more. Sometimes it will fire before the trigger reaches the rear of the trigger guard, and sometimes it won't. I have plenty of other rifles, including another M-39 to shoot. Curt
bobbo.collectorguns35625		#12	[-]
Posts: 38 (04/11/09 10:43 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	We're cool friend. I was ignorant to the fact that a refub with a laminated stock was correct historically. I'm learning thanks to you guys. You saved me from becoming a bubba. I know Nothting
Inky7	Not to whack the beehive....	#13	[-]
Posts: 64 (04/11/09 09:23 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	.....but I routinely polish up sear and trigger surfaces on my milsups and sand out barrel channels where they bind on the wood because I enjoy shooting them and seeing how accurate I can get them on in their original configuration .... I don't consider this a no-no as it's something I think an armorer would do anyway to tune up a rifle that had issues like a horrible trigger or a poor fitting stock.... And since I'm confessing..... I also assisted the flaking off of the cheap black paint on my RC K98s take down disk... mia culpa....will I go to milsup defiler's hell when I die??? Last Edited By: Inky7 04/11/09 10:06 PM. Edited 1 times.
Pahtu		#14	[-]
Posts: 2237 (04/11/09 10:08 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"will I go to milsup defiler's hell when I die???" Yes... ..... I understand why one wants to make a military rifle as accurate as possible - My rationale for not permanently accurizing my military rifles is.....none of them were mean't to be tack drivers. Some of them are extremely accurate. Most of my rifles were designed to hit man sized targets at 100 - 200 meters at best. If I want a crazy accurate rifle, I pull one out of my scoped Remingtons, TCR or 1600 Swede lightweight rifles. They can hit an egg every shot at a hundred yards I try to leave my rifles as they were issued. Repairs to cracked military stocks...You bet! A part breaks...of course replace it. Sand paper, poly, tung oil, BLO, smooth up the trigger....nah, those things ain't my style. I have restored three four military rifles & tried to fix them up to appear as original style rifles, but in the grand scheme of things, they are no longer original(thanks bubba..) and thus are worth the sum of their parts.... Pahtu.
Inky7	OK... so I was trying to whack the beehive....	#15	[-]
Posts: 65 (04/11/09 11:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Your point is taken and I have not and would not "bubbafy" a milsup or put Tru-Oil on any of them.... only minor functional things or acts of preservation and/or repair that I feel are in the spirit of those who designed these pieces of history. I understand and respect your perspective on this... BTW.... I am envious of the many Mosins you've posted pics of from your collection on this site... very nice.