Milsurper's answer to modern piracy...what are your ideas?

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high speed cruise	Milsurper's answer to modern piracy...what are your ideas?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 2930 (04/14/09 09:44 PM) Veteran member More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None What would YOU guys do to arm/protect 21st century ships at sea? Here's the fake me: 1). Pass out snowballs for ship-to-ship combat. 2). Flyswatters for repelling boarders. 3). Economic stimulus package for the downtrodden pirates who are forced into crime due to the failed policy of American Imperialism. OK! Been dying to post that sarcasm! Here's the REAL me: All ship railings to be covered in barbed wire nets. Strategic placement of shielded M2 Brownings. Crews armed with MP-5's for repelling boarders. Each sailor to carry a holstered 1911 when in or near "danger zones" of the oceans. Crews to be given training in basic shooting of these weapons. AK's and AK Krinkov's to be used in place of HK's for cost-cutting. Security personnel hired if desired. Each sailor may carry their preferance for weapons, pending successful qualification with desired weapon. (I'd get a "Navy" Luger with 6" barrel and two-position rear sight. Shoulder stock as well...wouldn't that be cool?) Q-ships: idea reactived. Lure pirates in close then blast them. Simple, effective. Kinda like the CCW idea: "criminals don't know who is armed and who isn't." What are your proposed solutions? hsc
BobM14		#1	[-]
Posts: 614 (04/14/09 09:59 PM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	As far as I can see, it's absurd to think that four Africans with AK47's in a rubber raft can capture a huge cargo ship. How does that happen??? Of course these ships should be armed. A 50 cal screwed to the deck would be adequate, but in reality, a big rock should do it.... Any one sailor with virtually any type of small arms should be able to lean over the side and "let the air" out of the attackers, or their boat. Each sailor should wear a sidearm and there should be a weapons locker containing high power semi auto rifles. I still am unable to understand why this isn't common practice. The news reports make it sound like some unresolveable problem that in reality is quite simple to resolve. Of course getting our media or official government spokesman to admit that a "firearm" is the answer would be unthinkable....It's the same arguement as the mass murders and slaughters of innocent people that could of been prevented or greatly lessened by the presence of one good individual with a gun. The best defence against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. How simple that truely is. Armed Infidel
7GREEN		#2	[-]
Posts: 566 (04/14/09 11:20 PM) Veteran member More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	In WWI the British had Q ships to fight U-Boats-when they attacked on the surface. They were erstwhile merchantmen with RN and RM crews, hidden guns. A favorite tactic was to have a "panic party" "abandon ship" when the U-Boat halted them. They would lure it in close then deal with it. Governor Alexander Spotswood charged RN Lieutenant Robert Maynard with tracking down and destroying Blackbeard-Maynard killed him in hand to hand combat, displayed his head. The Royal Navy still commemorates Maynard's actions.
Crunch130		#3	[-]
Posts: 853 (04/15/09 12:26 AM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	.50's on the decks, 'scoped M14's handy, and an M1911 on every hip. Predators armed with Hellfires patrolling overhead. Non-lethal? How about a high-pressure water cannon? I think it's time to send an entire Marine division in to capture the town that has has sprang up on pirate booty. Pack everything onto a cargo ship, sell it on E-bay, and turn the proceeds over to the insurance companies. Humiliate the pirates without killing very many of them. That would really spoil their fun. Crunch
wworker		#4	[-]
Posts: 3750 (04/15/09 06:33 AM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well one thing for sure, ignoring the pirates hasn't worked.
Youngblood		#5	[-]
Posts: 1103 (04/15/09 09:44 AM) Veteran member More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think that they need to train and arm elements of each crew (in a reasonable, controlled fashion ... scheduled Watch FireTeams with small secured Arms Lockers in various locations around the ship) and declare 1000m Exclusion (Free Fire) Zones around ships underway in areas of pirate activity. Prior to entering port, all weapons should be retrieved from the Lockers, inventoried and placed in a single, secure location (a Safe, preferably) under the skipper's exclusive control.
zeebill		#6	[-]
Posts: 3566 (04/15/09 11:54 AM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Knowing this will be a real knee jerk reaction on my part and probably cause a return reaction but when 9/11 occurred I remember the reaction of a local 93 year old women who called the talk show covering the disaster. Her thought on reprisal was nuke them and let God sort the good and the bad. I can't help thinking that would solve the whole thing very simplistically. Getting back to reality and thinking like a normal human being I would say arm the ships and men in some way (immaterial to me how) and increase the patrols which of course makes us a policeman to another part of the world and subject to more reprisal of some sort. What blew my mind about the whole thing was when I heard the news that they are currently holding like 500 people for ransom over there! How in the heck has this slipped under the radar of the news mongers or would it involve arming Americans and they want to avoid doing this in anyway. We for dang sure didn't sit there limp wristed when the Tripoli Pirates were a problem so for the sake of our merchant seamen let's get our butts in gear! Bill
Aubullet		#7	[-]
Posts: 1116 (04/15/09 12:13 PM) Veteran member More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Starting at the beginning of the 19th century the U.S. reaction to the Barbary Pirates was to send frigate squadrons to blockade the harbors and patrol the coasts of the source areas, and bombard the heck out of their port cities. Set up convoy systems through the troubled areas, recommend arming of all commercial vessels and sweep all vessels of the piratical powers from the surface of the sea. Seems we are right back there again, so the same response ought to work just as well. If you can't learn leasons like this from history, what can you learn, and from where? I think the idea of a one or two mile free fire zone should be recognized by all the worlds powers!
gpschmidt		#8	[-]
Posts: 609 (04/15/09 03:55 PM) active member More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This is my imagination working, but i say pop a hole in the ship. Boat goes down slowly, while being circled by US naval ships. If the crew survives, the pirates survive. If not, they become shark chum. Either way, they aren't getting the ship. Greg
scooter222		#9	[-]
Posts: 5031 (04/15/09 05:13 PM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	All the above are good suggestions. But from what I gather from the news it's not that easy. First many of these shipping companys don't want there ships, especially oil tankers, hit with RPGs. they may loose the whole ship and crew if fuel or oil tanks are hit. Riding shotgun and fighting from these ships problies not gonna happen. Not to mention the lawsuits from the dead crews families. Also these are small fast boats that blend in with the fishing boats. Kinda like picking out the bad boats from the legit back in Nam. The best ideas are blockades along the ports and sending in decoy gun ships that can deploy small attack boats or helicopters and not have any flamible cargo so they can fight from the ship. This situation realy makes us look impotent.
Jackbull49		#10	[-]
Posts: 220 (04/15/09 08:00 PM) active member More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Marine Hymn, says "the shores of Tripoli", not the seas. We have excellent satillites and drones find two of many Pirate hometowns and eliminate them. Completely If the acts continue do four, then eight, even the most Kaht gorged Skinny will see the math eventually. Sorry this can not be dealt with at sea, it must be made horrible enough to drugged up teenagers to make them consider agriculture as an alternative.
Ed Novak		#11	[-]
Posts: 1899 (04/15/09 08:14 PM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It is reported that the pirates disperse into the local communities or return to their homes after a mission. It seems that there are no "pirate ports" as such. Boats and arms are readily replaced were a berthing site destroyed. Entering territorial waters to "bombard" might work, IF there is a real target to bombard. Relatively small, fast, well armed ships with dedicated crews for "search and destroy" might work for awhile - seems the French managed to capture a "boat" and 11 pirates - who told the French that they were not out to capture a ship but to sink one (or two or...) in retaliation for French and U.S. actions in killing fellow pirates. Wonder where the UAVs with Hellfire missiles are? NRA Endowment member LECS #2
dratpatrol		#12	[-]
Posts: 3 (04/16/09 12:14 AM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	What if we quit giving them relief/humanitarian aid in addition to the millions in ransom money? Then teach 'em how to fish once they get seriously hungry! We could float a barge off the coast with two or three cows, and a lot of plastic demolition on it... wait for an "I Am Legend" moment, and then.... A certain Blackhawk wouldn't have been hit with an RPG if it hadn't all started with providing food to Somali warlords, no?
eagle7		#13	[-]
Posts: 3887 (04/16/09 10:33 AM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Cutting the food aid shipments won't stop Somali piracy, since Somalia is in total anarchy and unable to police itself. I say blockade the coast, and terminate all captured pirates with extreme prejudice. The only way to stop this problem is to make piracy a suicidal activity. I would NOT endorse any infantry or commando operations on the Somali mainland. That would afford the Somalis the opportunity to seize the initiative as they did during the Blackhawk Down fiasco... Likewise, I would shy away from draconian solutions like carpet bombing Mogadishu, which won't happen anyhow.
zaxxons		#14	[-]
Posts: 92 (04/16/09 11:55 AM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	WWID What Would Israel Do. Don't arm the seaman. That's why we have a military. Hit them hard and fast where it hurts, sink the mother ships. Make them afraid to leave port. It looks like power is the only thing they may understand.
jkingrph		#15	[-]
Posts: 84 (04/16/09 09:57 PM) active member More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	BobM14 wrote: As far as I can see, it's absurd to think that four Africans with AK47's in a rubber raft can capture a huge cargo ship. How does that happen??? Of course these ships should be armed. A 50 cal screwed to the deck would be adequate, but in reality, a big rock should do it.... Any one sailor with virtually any type of small arms should be able to lean over the side and "let the air" out of the attackers, or their boat. Each sailor should wear a sidearm and there should be a weapons locker containing high power semi auto rifles. I still am unable to understand why this isn't common practice. The news reports make it sound like some unresolveable problem that in reality is quite simple to resolve. Of course getting our media or official government spokesman to admit that a "firearm" is the answer would be unthinkable....It's the same arguement as the mass murders and slaughters of innocent people that could of been prevented or greatly lessened by the presence of one good individual with a gun. The best defence against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. How simple that truely is. "A 50 cal" mounted on the deck. In reality given the size of many of those ships it would require a miniumu of four, one at the bow, one at the stern and and one each midship at port and starboard. If you consider the height of those ships, the guns would need to be mounted right at the railing edge so that they could be depressed to give effective fire right up to the ships waterline. Jeff
HoosierDaddy		#16	[-]
Posts: 5420 (04/16/09 10:10 PM) Forum Site Moderator More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This in on topic? Ash Iron Construction
Carl Gustav		#17	[-]
Posts: 3358 (04/16/09 10:29 PM) Forum Site Moderator More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	How about dumping vats of boiling bacon fat on them? It would be a double whammy given their aversion to pork. I suppose my solution is OT snce it doesn't involve a milsurp weapon. Carl
Colin		#18	[-]
Posts: 1956 (04/16/09 10:57 PM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Carl Gustav: How about boiling cosmolene; that would be more in line with this forum. I strill like th Q ship idea; they'd never know when they'd caught a Tartar.
instructo		#19	[-]
Posts: 6 (04/17/09 01:01 PM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I like the idea of arming the ships and sailors. Many shipping companies have a strict policy concerning weapons on board. If I had to work in that part of the world, I'd at least want the option of being armed. Pirates have been active in many parts of the world forever. You'd think it would be harder to take a large ship, but I guess it isn't . An armed response would at least make them consider another ship as an easier target.
SeanMcMillion		#20	[-]
Posts: 15 (04/17/09 04:44 PM) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The reason why such small amount of pirates are needed to take over a modern ship is that they are mostly automated, meaning that the crews are generally going to be smaller. Arming crews would just make things worse, causing the pirates to become more desperate and causing them to leave any thoughts of subtelty at the door. Pirates, not looking to take any chances with a possibly armed crew, will slaughter all occupants and either make off with the cargo or, possibly with the ship itself. Plus, arming crewmembers is just an international incident waiting to happen. Perhaps a friendly gets a bit too close to a commercial freighter and the crew opens fire because they get a bit too jumpy. Jumpy people and guns are a bad combination. Pirates are going apesh*t because our military killed a couple of them. What do you think they would do if the crews themselves are killing them? The only way to stop piracy is to have warships run escorting duties through the most dangerous and pirate infested waters as a sort of deterrance.