FN-49 "Sniper" Sold on GunBroker

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Goose52	FN-49 "Sniper" Sold on GunBroker	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1119 (06/18/08 10:27 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None The auction is now over so I can comment on the sale of a recent "sniper rifle" on GunBroker. Guys, please do your research before paying big bucks for an FN-49 sniper rifle. Information is now available to authenticate most of the true FN-49 sniper rifles. There were true snipers in only four contracts: Belgium, Belgian Congo, Luxembourg, and Egypt. The Egyptian and Lux snipers can be easily authenticated (as can a Belgian Congo sniper if one were ever to actually find one). There are probably few, if any Belgian contract snipers in the U.S. so they don't present much of a problem here but there are known to be number of "put-togethers" in Europe; and since the serial numbers of the Belgian snipers are not presently known, all Belgian snipers have to be carefully examined to determine authenticity. The rifle sold in this auction (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=102258463 ) is a total "put-together": -- The serial number of this rifle is 5922 - the original snipers were serial number 7001 to 7203. -- It has an incorrect, non-crossbolt, non-sniper stock - probably from an "Early-variant" Lux rifle. -- The cheekpiece is an original part - but it's on the wrong stock. Also, the cheekpiece is attached with phillips-head screws - the original screws were blued, slotted screws. The routing to install the cheekpiece does not match the routing used by FN. -- The scope base is a reproduction that has been added - it doesn't have the correct black paint finish and bomb# stamping on the leading edge of the base that is on the true Lux snipers. -- The scope mount is the "small-knob" commercial Echo mount - not the large knob military version. -- The scope is just an early Lyman that probably began life being attached to a Winchester Mdl 70 or similar sporting rifle - it was not used by Luxembourg on their snipers. Do your research and you might get a nice, rare, genuine FN-49 sniper rifle. Don't research and you get an interesting collection of incorrect parts at a sniper price. Now, the seller of this rifle may or may not even know what he had. Prior to 2004, there was no information commonly available to authenticate these rifles so he might have bought that rifle as a sniper, and sold it in good faith as a sniper - who knows. In any event, caveat emptor… Goose Read a good book lately? www.fn49.com Last Edited By: Goose52 06/18/08 10:40 PM. Edited 2 times.
WVchuck		#1	[-]
Posts: 10918 (06/19/08 12:34 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Goose, I think it is acceptable to post a live auction with correct info regarding it being real or not.
Goose52		#2	[-]
Posts: 1120 (06/19/08 12:58 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for the info. Every Board has different rules but on many posting on an active auction is prohibited. I also posted this over at FAL Files and it started quite a discussion as to whether I should have flagged this auction earlier. The gist of my responses over there is that the purpose of this thread was to make people think and research before buying - not to police any particular auction. I cannot be the policeman of the internet. MANY sales of FN-49s involve incorrect product descriptions or show images of incorrect or put-together rifles. I cannot interfere in those auctions or post on all the boards every time I see a bogus auction - it would be a full-time job. Goose Read a good book lately? www.fn49.com
WVchuck		#3	[-]
Posts: 10919 (06/19/08 07:46 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	We're not supposed to post here, but I would think that a warning note from "folks in the know" would be a good thing in regard to incorrect pieces. Even after the fact is still a learning experience. I'd just hate to learn something like that the hard way.
EricOKC		#4	[-]
Posts: 4656 (06/25/08 09:23 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The price difference between that "sniper" and a legitimate FN would have paid for a lot of drilling and tapping.....
revev	original fn-49 sniper?	#5	[-]
Posts: 1 (04/30/09 08:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	After reading your entry about original fn-49 sniper rifles, I believe I may have one. I picked it up at a gun show some years ago. The serial number is very close to the one featured in the December 2005 issue of American Rifleman. The serial number is stamped into the right side of the stock just above the trigger and below the back of the receiver. Also, the serial number is stamped in the metal on the front ring of the receiver, the bolt, and on the back part of the receiver housing just above the dust cover. It has no import marks on it. The scope mount may be original. It has the numbers "80" stamped on the forward edge of the mount and "022" on the trailing edge. However, the top part of the mount, the part with the rings, is the small ring commercial version and it came with an older bushnell scope. Also, a flash deflector has been added to the end of the barrel. The black enamel paint is in very good shape, and of course the receiver carries the "AL" crest. The bottom of the stock, just forward of the magazine well, carries a stamped circle around two cursive letters that I cannot figure out. They look like some sort of intertwined "R", "B" or "L". With the exception of the above characteristics, it seems to have all the characteristics you describe in your entry. Is there any other way of knowing if it is indeed an original? I am interested in knowing, as I want to sell it soon and want to set an accurate price according to its authenticity. Incidentally, it is a very accurate rifle. I have shot it only once, using the older scope, and it easily prints 1-inch groups at 100 yards. It flung the brass quite far from me, and from reading some posts, I thought maybe the gas adjustment should be changed, but I have never addressed that.
revev	Correction for the SN on fn-49	#6	[-]
Posts: 2 (04/30/09 09:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I meant to say that "the serial number is stamped into the right side of the stock just above the trigger, which is just below the back of the receiver." What I said gives the impression that the serial number is stamped into the stock twice, which is not the case. Sorry
Goose52		#7	[-]
Posts: 1130 (04/30/09 09:38 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for reading my article in the Dec. 05 American Rifleman ... If your rifle serial number is between 7001 and 7203, then you have a Luxembourg contract sniper rifle. There were no import marks on these as they were imported in 1966 - long before import marks were required. There should be six parts that are serialized - receiver, receiver cover, bolt carrier, bolt, barrel, and stock. The scope mount is definitely original - the stamping on the leading edge is not "80" - the "8" is actually a bomb stamping - so your stamping is (bomb)0. As you noted, the small-knob Echo mount and the Bushnell scope are not original. The flash suppressor is not original and should be replaced with the original muzzle cap (try Numrich or Sarco for the cap). Luxembourg snipers (with the scope base but no Echo mount or scope) easily bring $2200 on up, depending on condition and originality. Some have gone for much more - depends on how bad a prospective buyer wants the rifle. There are only 203 genuine Lux snipers, and they don't come up for sale often. Goose Read a good book lately? www.fn49.com
revev		#8	[-]
Posts: 3 (05/01/09 08:17 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Goose52, thanks for your quick reply. The serial number for my AL sniper is 7171. It is in very good shape and looks very similar to yours in the American Rifleman magazine. Even the hue and grain of the stock are very similar. There are no dings in the stock, although there are a few rub marks. It looks like the rifle has been handled very infrequently over the years. I will try to find someone or a service better qualified than I to appraise it before I offer it for sale. I will also investigate replacing the flash suppressor with an original muzzle cap. On the one occasion I did fire it, I found it interesting that the rifle was very accurate in both semi-automatic and manual mode, although it grouped the rounds differently depending on the mode. Again, thanks for your help. Revev
Bruce in AZ	I have Sniper s/n 7023 and it is up for sale	#9	[-]
Posts: 1 (07/17/09 10:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have s/n 7023. I bought it from Western Surplus in North Hollywood CA in about 1974. They had two racks of FN-49's - 7mm beaters @ $99 and Lux .30-06 snipers @ $125. I thought $25 bucks was a lot of money but I wanted a US caliber so I went broke and got the sniper. The only thing I didn't like about it at the time was the "what the heck is this thing?" (The scope base that was mount to the left side). I didn't know it was a sniper until years later. I put probably 50 rounds through it and last fired it probably 1975 or 76. It still has the correct stock with cross bolt, cheek piece with sloted screws, all s/n's match, AL on top of the breach, and the original scope mount base - just no scope or Echo scope mount. I have since found the large knob Echo mount. But still no scope. Anyone interested? If so I'll post price and FFL dealer info. Bruce NRA Benefactor member
Goose52		#10	[-]
Posts: 1132 (07/17/09 11:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	$125 was the price back in early '68 when they were originally offered for sale. Looks like you didn't have to pay any mark-up from that price in '74 ! For my sniper rifle survey, could you report the 3-digit number that is on the scope base of your rifle? It will be a number between 001 and 203. Thanks, Goose Read a good book lately? www.fn49.com
Bruce in AZ	Sniper 7023 scope base s/n	#11	[-]
Posts: 2 (07/18/09 03:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Goose, Looking at the left side of the rifle the scope base is stamped "137" near the middle of the base and has the "bomb" stamp at the left end (toward muzzle). The stock color and grain also match your rifle as pictured in the American Rifleman article. The rifle is complete and has the large knob Echo mount - just minus the scope. It is available at R-Guns in Lake Havasu City, AZ (928 854-4500) listed at $2200. Bruce NRA Benefactor member
Goose52		#12	[-]
Posts: 1133 (07/18/09 04:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for the info Bruce. I have info on 37 Lux snipers in the data base and can always use more data! $2200 is a very reasonable price for the rifle ... Goose Read a good book lately? www.fn49.com
Bruce in AZ	Sniper 7023	#13	[-]
Posts: 3 (07/18/09 06:08 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Goose, What do you think an approximate value would be so a potential buyer would realize $2200 is a "reasonable price"? Bruce NRA Benefactor member
Goose52		#14	[-]
Posts: 1134 (07/18/09 08:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I know of one Lux sniper that reportedly sold for $4000. That's an extreme case of both the gun shop, and the buyer, not knowing the market price of the rifle. Since so few of these come up for sale, it's hard for people to know the value. However, of the half-dozen sales that I'm aware of over the last 7-8 years, the price trend has been steadily upward. I got a steal on a Lux sniper (the one illustrated in the AR article) and only paid $1600 for that one (and got an incorrect Belgian contract OIP scope with it as well). The second Lux sniper that I have I gladly paid $2000 for the rifle only (no scope) and thought that fair at the time. That was a few years ago. Based on the trend, I think $2500 is a fair price today and, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, to a well-heeled buyer with an itch for a sniper, you could probably get more. One thing to always stress about this rifle is that while it does not have the "cachet" of other snipers having extensive combat service ... it is still a finely crafted, FN-factory assembled sniper of which ONLY 203 were made for this contract (out of only 750 total FN-49 production snipers ever made by FN). My .02 Goose Read a good book lately? www.fn49.com
LT USN	I am interested in your rifle!	#15	[-]
Posts: 67 (08/07/09 12:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Bruce in AZ or revev, If either one of you two still have the Lux snipers for sale I would love to see some pics and quite possibly purchase one of the rifles from you. Thanks in advance and I look forward to hearing from you. I have attached my e-mail address if that helps. (michael.s.taylor6@navy.mil) Mick
Bruce in AZ	Sniper 7023 sold	#16	[-]
Posts: 4 (08/11/09 05:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This rifle was sold 8-11-09.
Ken Shabby		#17	[-]
Posts: 486 (08/14/09 11:18 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	There are currently a couple FN-49s up on gun broker that are being advertised as "someone told me this is a sniper...", but there isn't enough info available in the posting to check based on Goose52's information. Sniper rifles have such cachet that I've probably seen ten times as many fakes as real ones and didn't even know it. The 91/30 snipers are the only ones I'm reasonably confident in ID'ing...which is why I haven't bought a sniper rifle yet. Last Edited By: Ken Shabby 08/14/09 11:21 AM. Edited 1 times.
Goose52		#18	[-]
Posts: 1136 (08/14/09 01:13 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	As of yesterday, there were NO real FN-49 sniper rifles on Gunbroker. Some people call a rifle a "sniper" if it only has the scope-mounting dovetail on the left side of the receiver. However, the presence of the dovetail does not make a rifle a "sniper" - all of the other features that would constitute a fully-rigged, correct sniper, must be in place - most notably the correct cheekpiece. Further, in some cases a rifle must ALSO be in a certain serial number range as well. I have a 19-page sniper rifle chapter in my book if anyone is interested in having information that would enable one to properly authenticate a correct FN-49 sniper rifle. Goose Read a good book lately? www.fn49.com
Ken Shabby		#19	[-]
Posts: 487 (08/14/09 01:28 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm not surprised those aren't real...I usually do a lot of research before I buy. I like to know what I'm looking at, and with snipers it's that much more important due to the number of "replicas" and outright fakes advertised as real. If I ever seriously shop one of these (or indeed any FN-49) I'll probably buy your book...it's always good to have a reference.
LT USN	Correct scope and wooden crate	#20	[-]
Posts: 69 (08/14/09 08:25 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Goose52, As you see Bruce in AZ listed his FN sniper as sold and I figured since this was a very rare opportunity I would have to jump on the offer as I did. My question back to you know would be where and at what cost could I find a correct scope. There is one listed on Gunbroker with the mount but I was very unsure. As well I would like to purchase one of the rifle crates that Sarco list as an original FN 49 sniper but I wanted to get your oponion as well first. Thanks.