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supers1	No 4 k1 Prices	Lead	[-]
Posts: 241 (05/10/09 09:46 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None At the latest Montreal area gun show last week, several Enfields were up for sale. One No 5 was going for $350. Various No 1's were going from $150-$300. Several No. 4's were available. What really caught my eye was a BSA No. 4 Mk 1 (1941) for $600 and what really seemed out of reality was a 1941 Longbranch No. 4 Mk 1 for $1000. All prices are in Canadian dollars. I know that 1941 was the year that the No. 4 was adopted but are these prices justified?
Ed Novak		#1	[-]
Posts: 1919 (05/10/09 01:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The 1941 LB No.4, Mk.1 will command a premium here in the U.S., as will a Savage Mk.1. Don't know if a premium price of $1K is warranted though. Depends on the market I suppose. NRA Endowment member LECS #2
supers1		#2	[-]
Posts: 242 (05/10/09 04:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Makes we wonder what my unfired1950 Longbranch no. 1 Mk 1* (last year of LB production) and my unfired Irish Contract No. 4 Mk 2 (last year of British production) are worth? Anyone have an idea?
bambam91		#3	[-]
Posts: 109 (05/10/09 08:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ed, Would you care to elaborate? Why are the Savage rifles so much more? There is a shop around here that has quite a few in various levels of condition for $200-$300. This place will even allow you to swap parts fom the rifles on the racks to make what you want. They just have them marked based on SS#. What would you call a "premium"? I am interested, even though I already have a nice #4 Savage, another could be had and sold to further my collection. Like a Lithgow #1MkIII.
Metaleer	Enfield Prices	#4	[-]
Posts: 24 (05/15/09 03:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"unfired Irish Contract No. 4 Mk 2 (last year of British production) are worth?" They have been going for $1,000 to $700 on Auction Arms and Gunbroker. Prices for the Enfields have been all over the place. On the Web sites people are getting a premium while at stores they are still in the $400-$250 range depending on the condition. Older finer looking and functioning rifles are getting harder and harder to find. The safes of many gun collectors and individuals of late are being thinned out because of the state of the economy. Now is a great time to get a deal or make one.
Ed Novak		#5	[-]
Posts: 1929 (05/15/09 08:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Bambam: I referred specifically to "LB 1941 No. 4, Mk. 1" and "Savage No.4, Mk. 1". These rifles are early models and relatively scarce and, therefore, more desirable. I've never seen a LB Mk.1 and held only one Savage Mk.1 in all my years of collecting (admittedly, I am not a big volume buyer/collector but I keep my eyes open for these rifles). Here's a tale about my one and only Savage Mk.1: I bought this rifle as a sporterized rifle with cut-down wood from North China Arms several years ago and I paid more for this rifle than I ever paid for any two other No. 4s. Brian Dick was able to find me a new, unissued set of "Savage Contract" wood and I put this rifle back into 100% original-type condition. This rifle is a Mk.1 with a production number in the Mk. 1* range (probably an action somehow left behind in the early run) and a bit unusual for that. I let my oldest son talk me out of it (as a gift) with the promise that he'd "resell" this rifle to me (I'd pay him to get it back) for a reasonable price at any time he no longer needed it. I have asked about the rifle several times by email but received no reply - talks about the weather, his dog, etc., etc. so I suspect that it has been pawned/hocked/sold off. Kids! NRA Endowment member LECS #2 Last Edited By: Ed Novak 05/15/09 08:06 PM. Edited 1 times.
T OHeir		#6	[-]
Posts: 466 (05/17/09 02:14 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Anybody who thinks any standard No. 4 Mk I Lee-Enfield is worth a grand has been smoking something that is illegal. "...last year of LB production..." Canadian Arsenals made No. 4's until just before production of the C1 started in 1955. Spelling and grammar count!
Ed Novak		#7	[-]
Posts: 1932 (05/17/09 03:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	But, LB didn't produce the Mk. 1 for very long; I don't know when Mk. 1 production ended and Mk. 1* production started. $1K for even a '41 Mk. 1 is way beyond what I'd expect even a die-hard collector to pay but there are people out there with a lot of money to spend. NRA Endowment member LECS #2
Metaleer	LB MKI rifles	#8	[-]
Posts: 26 (05/17/09 08:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	According to British Enfield Rifles Vol. 2 Long Branch only made the MKI in 1941 (page 24) and Savage also changed over that year. LB serial numbers prefix was 0L to 1L. There were between 10,000 to 15,000 rifles made. (Pages 168-169) Hope that helps. Last Edited By: Metaleer 05/17/09 08:26 PM. Edited 1 times.
Ed Novak		#9	[-]
Posts: 1943 (05/23/09 01:20 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Metaleer wrote: According to British Enfield Rifles Vol. 2 Long Branch only made the MKI in 1941 (page 24) and Savage also changed over that year. LB serial numbers prefix was 0L to 1L. There were between 10,000 to 15,000 rifles made. (Pages 168-169) Hope that helps. How many millions of No.4s were produced in total? 10 - 15K LB No.1s was certainly a tiny fraction of the total number, as were Savage No.1s. Thanks Metaleer for the information. NRA Endowment member LECS #2
TP		#10	[-]
Posts: 865 (05/23/09 05:14 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ed, if I recall correctly, the Savage production was the highest of all of the individual makers - Canadian, British and US - with over 1 million made. I have never understood their bringing higher prices than other makers. Canadian, yes, but Savage no. I'll try to check those numbers again when I get a chance, its been a while since I saw the production numbers. I guess its the "US Property" marking that brings the big money and the feeling that they are "rare". Last Edited By: TP 05/23/09 05:16 PM. Edited 1 times.
Ed Novak		#11	[-]
Posts: 1948 (05/23/09 09:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Again: I originally made reference to the LB No. 4, Mk. 1 and added a comment about the Savage No. 4, Mk. 1. An additional fact is that Savage No. 4s are demanding a premium in the U.S. - in my opinion, Savage No.4s are popular in the U.S. because they are "American made". I will expect that the LB No. 4 is popular in Canada because it is Canadian made. Total No.4 production interest is with respect to total number of No. 4 rifles produced anywhere, any model/mark in comparison with the total number of Long Branch No. 4, Mk. 1 rifles produced. I repeat: I am comparing the total No. 4 production vs the number of Long Branch No. 4, Mk. 1 rifles. I could make the same specification regarding the Savage No. 4, Mk. 1 rifle vs total No.4 production but the original issue was about the asking price of a LB No.4, Mk.1 rifle. NRA Endowment member LECS #2
Hessenfesser		#12	[-]
Posts: 62 (05/26/09 10:19 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If the '41 Longbranch No4 Mk1 is in pristine condition and unfired since it left the factory it may well be worth $1000 to the right person. Also, one thing to remember is that asking prices and selling prices are usually two completely different things. You should never base the value of an item on the price asked. Base value on the price it sold at. ~Hessenfesser
bambam91		#13	[-]
Posts: 114 (05/27/09 11:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	First Sorry I have been gone for a long time. Final exams! YUCK!!!! Ed, I would have to agree with you on the surface. 10K-15K in a total of a million is 1%-1.5%. So if five million were made that is 0.2% to 0.03%. And I think 5 million is on the low side, sinceI have not had time to read and remember all the data in my new books (Thanks for the recomendation ED). But... 10K-15K rifles is a lot!!! expecially considering modern production levels. Considering Enfields are popular, only, with a fairly small percentage of the gun buying public, there should be a LB and a Mk1 for all of us!!! Maybe we could get government handouts of them?!? I know not likely Anyway, the last post is the most telling. Selling is very different from asking. I tracked 10 different rifles on Gunbroker of a specific make and model (I aint telling yall what gun it is, find you own deals!!!! ) and the 2 that sold (only 20%) were on average $100 less than the average asking price. In this case $100 was 1/3 of the asking price and 1/2 of the selling price!!! That's right $300 rifles are actually selling for $200, on average. Imagine that in this day and age. But then again, it only takes one dufus to buy one at $300-$350 to ruin it for the rest of us. B/c then asking price becomes selling price! So in solidarity buy cheap!!
supers1		#14	[-]
Posts: 243 (05/28/09 10:52 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The LB N o.4 Mk1 (1941) outwardly looked pristine. I did not check the bore. I still think $1000 is a lot to pay for this model. Don't know if it sold.
Ray Newman		#15	[-]
Posts: 340 (05/28/09 11:01 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've had an interest in the L-E for about 20 years & it seems to me that L-E prices over the last few years have taken a dramatic increase. Esp. for those that are in really pristine condition, all original & OEM issue, &/ or are unusual like the Savage & the Long Branch No.4 Mk I. I really can't recall the last time I saw a Savage or LB No. 4 Mk I for sale. 'Sorta' like the elusive & mythical 7.62 mm LB No. 4 -- you just don't see them very often & then you need to look @ the price w/ only one eye, it look only as half as bad that way.... It is the nature of collecting firearms that suddenly are popular -- the price increases as the supply diminishes. & of course prices are relative to condition & availability. & for the collector grade firearms, it is even more true. In the mid 1980's there was a milsurps dealer @ the San Francisco Cow Palace Gun shows who had Enfields. He had complete sniper L-E No 4's w/ matching scope & matching numbers, transit box, spotting scope, etc., for about US $500-550. They were a hard sell. Now what does a complete No. 4 T go for these days?-- if you can find one: US$4500.00 +?? Look @ the price of #5's.Same w/ the Springfield 1903 & 1903A3. & of course no one wanted a US M1917 or those old Krags....
Ray Newman		#16	[-]
Posts: 340 (05/28/09 11:01 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've had an interest in the L-E for about 20 years & it seems to me that L-E prices over the last few years have taken a dramatic increase. Esp. for those that are in really pristine condition, all original & OEM issue, &/ or are unusual like the Savage & the Long Branch No.4 Mk I. I really can't recall the last time I saw a Savage or LB No. 4 Mk I for sale. 'Sorta' like the elusive & mythical 7.62 mm LB No. 4 -- you just don't see them very often & then you need to look @ the price w/ only one eye, it look only as half as bad that way.... It is the nature of collecting firearms that suddenly are popular -- the price increases as the supply diminishes. & of course prices are relative to condition & availability. & for the collector grade firearms, it is even more true. In the mid 1980's there was a milsurps dealer @ the San Francisco Cow Palace Gun shows who had Enfields. He had complete sniper L-E No 4's w/ matching scope & matching numbers, transit box, spotting scope, etc., for about US $500-550. They were a hard sell. Now what does a complete No. 4 T go for these days?-- if you can find one: US$4500.00 +?? Look @ the price of #5's.Same w/ the Springfield 1903 & 1903A3. & of course no one wanted a US M1917 or those old Krags....
bambam91		#17	[-]
Posts: 119 (05/29/09 10:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ray: The Savages, anyway, are not rare. They were largest producing factory of any in WWII. Stratton, has the total est prod at 4.163M. Savage was the largest total contributor at 1.236M. That is about 30%. so almost 1 in 3 WWII #4's should be a Savage. The Long Branch's were second in production at 0.906M. So they are closer to 1 in 4. Either way they should be really common. I guess it depends on what gets imported. I know the shop around here has 7 of them in various condition sitting on a rack. I keep looking at an all matching Savage, unfortunatley it is in pretty sad shape. I just wonder if I am ready for a project???? Also from my previous post, obviously I was wrong, there were not >5M guns made, there were 4.163M. So that would make the % from 2.4% to 3.6% not 1%-1.5%. Sorry about the error.
Ray Newman		#18	[-]
Posts: 342 (05/30/09 01:53 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	BamBam91: while the Savage & LB No. 4 Mk I*'s are not rare, the Savage & LB No 4 Mk I's surely are few & far between. Have you ever seen one for sale? I haven't in years & I'm always looking. I wonder how many of the Savage & LB No. 4 Mk I's are resting in some hulk on the bottom of the Atlantic? If I recall correctly, 1942 saw the highest losses for Allied ships in the Atlantic. Hard to say what happened to all of the Savage & LB No. 4 Mk I's, but you don't see them for sale.
bambam91		#19	[-]
Posts: 120 (05/30/09 11:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ray: You are right. I forget that the manufacture did not happen in a vacuum. During that period a lot of stuff went in the drink. As late as mid '43 the packs were pretty much having their way with us. And no I have not seen any #4MkI's for sale but then again, I have only looked in the last 3 months. Sadly I did know of one once. In college ('91-'92) some friends and I bought some cheap guns at a local shop, I bought 2. One was, I now know, a Savage #4MkI, in cosmoline packed Excellent condition. Wood, metal , bore were nearly perfect as I remember. We took them and stripped them down to get cosmo out of everything. They shot great!! I was able to shoot supported kneeliong groups with around 3-4" @ 100yds. Sadly I do not know where it is now. Probably sold for beer money . The other was an excellent M96 with the mountain sights. Alas it also went the way of the #4. The folly of youth is actually rather painful. Painful is also the #4 T I could have gotten for $350.00. But I passed on it, I was not interested at the time. Aargh!!! Yes with scope. (No transit chest or other acc. just the gun and scope. Still painful.) I imagine they are out there probably waiting to get imported in, but being blocked by our ever protecting big brother government. I saw an international arms website, several years ago that had 50-100K M1 carbines at $50 ea. Problem was you had to State Dept approval to get them in. Annd they were not approving. Can you imagine $500K in guns selling for almost 10 times that on the market? Yeah $500ea is cheap nowadays, but with that volume on the market the cost would come down some. Oh, well I guess elections have consequences..... Now I am getting soap box morose... Later and have a good weekend everyone.
TP		#20	[-]
Posts: 866 (06/01/09 12:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ray, why the Savage and Longbranch rifles are so hard to find for you I can't say, it may be your location. With the Longbranch rifles, many were kept in Canada for their armed forces of course while some were sent to England but it was a relatively small number in service with British forces. More Longbranch rifles stayed in Canada than you might think and then were surplussed there so they are possibly still in Canadian hands, but they are not uncommon in the US in my experience. That being said, the 1945 dated Longbranch I currently have came from India so .... The Savage rifles, have been fairly hard to find and here is what I think happened with them: while made on contract to British standards, the British military has always preferred to have their forces equipped with English made weapons and equipment. Savage (and Longbranch) rifles were indeed issued but when the need for the large numbers of rifles was no longer there, the first guns to be sent overseas to allies who needed weapons were the non-British made weapons. Large quantities of Lee-Enfield rifles were sent to Both Italy and Greece post WW2 and the Italian Navy recently sold large numbers and they have been offered for sale in Europe, there may be some Savages in there. There have recently been Enfield No.4 rifles imported from Turkey (?) and a large number of those are reported to be Savages. Numerous Savage rifles also turned up in the Indian imports 20 years ago. A fair number of Savage rifles came in from the Middle East and last but not least, many were probably sent to colonies and former colonies in Africa post WW2 and still may show up here in the future. Keep looking, they are out there.

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