Krag actions brittle?

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flatapple	Krag actions brittle?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 81 (05/19/09 01:28 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Being a newbie to the Krag I was given info at a gun show this past weekend. I was told that some Krag actions were unsafe to shoot...because they were brittle. I have never heard of this, can this be true?
m1 talker		#1	[-]
Posts: 6733 (05/19/09 01:41 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I know some of the early Springfield 1903 rifles made before a certain cutoff in 1918 were considered low serial number receivers and they were prone to be brittle and to some, unsafe to shoot. But I have never heard this about the Krag rifles. It could be that the guy who said that was simply confusing the two rifles? The .30-40 cartridge is not as powerful as the .30-06 cartridge is, so I don't see that much danger. But I really don't know that much about the Krag rifles to make any solid claims. I would be interested to see what others have to say about it. Curt
2POP		#2	[-]
Posts: 30 (05/19/09 03:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Frank de Hass states in his book "Bolt Action Rifles" he never saw a cracked Krag receiver but did see a couple of cracked bolts in the locking lug area, he attributed to: Hand loads that were too heavy or rebarreled to a caliber to that was too strong for the action. Stay with factory ammo or factory equivalent handloads and you should be fine.
7GREEN		#3	[-]
Posts: 584 (05/19/09 09:14 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The question of the Low Number Springfield has been debated for years, Hatcher's Notebook lists-with pictures and documentation-several case of blow ups of low number Springfields that he was assigned to investigate, he was born in 1885 and was commisioned in 1907 or so when I presume the transition from the Krag to the M1903 was just beginning. If there were any case of brittle Krags and blow ups I'm sure he would have know about it-and so would we.
flatapple	I feel much better...	#4	[-]
Posts: 82 (05/20/09 12:32 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for the great info...I feel much better!
Parashooter		#5	[-]
Posts: 1659 (05/20/09 12:42 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	US Krag steel and heat-treatment was the same as the early M1903's - but the design of the breech, and the form of the cartridge, is very different. A split case head in the Krag can only vent gas directly to the outside air, while in the '03 gas escapes into the relatively cavernous receiver ring and goes looking for a way out. If there's enough gas, the SHT '03 ring can shatter from the internal pressure. With the Krag's lack of any such cavity inside the receiver ring, combined with the fact that the rimmed cartridge is about completely surrounded by the Krag's barrel and bolt, there's little opportunity for damage beyond a broken bolt lug - immediately backed up by the bolt rib and finally the bolt handle. The Krag may not be super-strong, but it's pretty safe because of the breech design.
temperflash		#6	[-]
Posts: 386 (05/22/09 03:11 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Damage to Krag bolts was m,ost often due to the attempt to increase performance. A new loading that on paper produced only a few thousand PSI higher pressures turned out to be more than the single locking lug could handle on a regular basis, the primitive state of propellant technology was the real culprit. I had a nice looking Krag Carbine many years ago, but never fired it because the bore was corroded by corrosive primer residue trapped under a thick coating of Cupro-Nickel fouling. I ended up selling it to a collector as a wall hanger only. The guide rib is supposed to act as a non bearing safety lug. Sometimes with wear the guide rib will bear normally, but a bearing guide rib is also sometimes a sign of damaghe to the locking lug or setback of the locking surface. If the guide rib doesn't bear when locked the bolt is probably undamaged, but one should never assume that any rifle that old is sound enough for modern ammunition. Such a rifle should always be test fired remotely and cases checked for signs of excessive pressures or damage to the chamber, etc. PS I wish I'd held on to that Krag, replacement barrels were available a few years back, and some may still be out there.
Alibi	Julian Hatcher comments	#7	[-]
Posts: 471 (05/27/09 11:21 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Extract from Hatcher's Notebook, pages 202-203: "I once received a letter in which the writer inquired about the strength of the [M1903] bolt. He stated that he had read that in a magazine that the Springfield bolt was much weaker than that of the Krag-Jorgensen, and that the Springfield bolt was dangerous because of a tendency to blow out of the rifle, which the Krag would not do. Of course, anybody who has any conception of rifle construction knows that either the Springfield bolt or the Enfield [M1917] bolt with double lugs is far stronger than the Krag bolt with only one lug. Even so, the Krag has entirely satisfactory strength for the range of pressures for which it was designed, that is, about 40,000 pounds maximum. In connection with its loading of Krag cartridges, the Ordnance Department determined that the pressures should never be allowed to go over 42,000 pounds per square inch. These guns have been used by many persons with little regard for this limitation, and consequently we occasionally see a Krag with one locking lug cracked, or even broken entirely off; other Krag bolts have broken in two just back of the locking lug. However, these bolts did not blow out of the gun; there is a rib on the right side of the bolt that bears against the shoulder on the receiver, and this acts as a safety lug, and in addition, the bolt handle turns down into a slot at the rear, which acts as a further safety feature. The Krag rifles have been in use since October 1894, when the first issue of the so-called Model of 1892 was made. During the intervening period of over 50 years this fine rifle has made a great reputation for itself." Hatcher has no comments regarding the strength of the Krag receiver, and apparently if anything was going to fail it was the bolt. I have owned several Krags and fired one or two with factory loads and can report that they are comfortable to shoot and the bolt is so smooth in operation as to be almost awkward. After firing other military bolt action rifles there is a tendency to work the Krag bolt harder than necessary. I had a M1899 carbine that the forward rear sight hole was open into the barrel. I suspect someone wanted to deepen the hole for some reason and drilled into the barrel. I never tried to fire this piece as I thought that it was likely the pressure of firing would blow the rear sight off the barrel. I tagged this rifle with a warning of the condition of the barrel before I sold it, and I hope no one came to harm or damage the gun trying to fire it. It does bring up the idea that any newly acquired firearm should be thoroughly disassembled and inspected before shooting it.
Sgt LaBelle		#8	[-]
Posts: 40 (06/01/09 07:02 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've never heard about a Krag being brittle, never. But as far as the springfield problem goes check this out. If nothing else it's a good read. http://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/
7GREEN		#9	[-]
Posts: 593 (06/01/09 07:13 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	There were attempts to adapt the Krag for more powerful cartridges after WWII. W.H.B. Smith says they were sucessful due to improvments in metallurgy, but the Norwegian author of the chapter on Danish and Norwegian Krags in Brophy's book says they were NOT due to the weaknesses in the design.
Krag Bowie		#10	[-]
Posts: 34 (06/12/09 11:30 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It is also a common misconception for people to assume that all Krags are "low numbered" as they are older than low numbered '03s. Parashooter was dead on when he stated the differences in breeching and cartridge design. The M1898 Frankford Arsenal round drove a 220 gr bullet out of the Krag at 2200 fps-8mm Mauser and 30-03/30-06 territory for sure! If encountered, these ordnance abominations should not be fired as they were pulled from service after being deemed unsafe. This round being approved for service is a prime example of "good intentions, bad judgment". For the record, I will not fire low numbered '03s. I fire my Krags with full powered 220s at 2000fps every chance I get!
temperflash		#11	[-]
Posts: 401 (06/13/09 06:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	7GREEN wrote: There were attempts to adapt the Krag for more powerful cartridges after WWII. W.H.B. Smith says they were sucessful due to improvments in metallurgy, but the Norwegian author of the chapter on Danish and Norwegian Krags in Brophy's book says they were NOT due to the weaknesses in the design. German attempts to rebarrel captured European Krags to 7.92X57 resulted in a dangerous combination. These rifles might well have been okay if the pre WW1 8mm were used, but I've run across WW2 production 7.92 that probably wouldn't be very safe to fire in a Gew98. It pays to be careful with old military ammo, you might end up with heavy AP meant for aircraft MGs loaded hot enough to take older Mausers or Commision Rifles apart. I fired some 7.92 from a mixed box in my first Mauser Carbine long ago, and it set me back on one heel and spun me around 180 degrees. The earthen bank behind the target spouted a brilliant jet of flame more like a rocket exhaust than a tracer. Muzzle blast was so great I can't even say for sure what color that jet of flame was, either green or purple. Afterimages lasted several minutes. I'm pretty sure one of those cartridges would have turned a Krag into a pipe bomb.