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eagle7 |
Phony POWs scam the VA system |
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I read an Associated Press news release today about phony POWs defrauding the VA. The VA recently audited their records and found that 286 veterans are
claiming POW status from the first Gulf War, although military records show only 21 bonafide Gulf War POWs are still alive. Also, 996 Vietnam veterans are
claiming special benefits as former POWs, although only 561 of the 661 documented VN War POWs are still alive. It never ceases to amaze me how low some
vermin are.....
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WesinMI |
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They are heroes in their own mind - probably "Prisoners" of War in US brigs/stockades!
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eb in oregon |
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It goes beyound that. While in college in the early '90's (I finished late) I worked in a veterans counseling center for just about 2 1/2 years. The
veterans job counselor in that office was Vietnam veteran, an Airborne Ranger, Long Range Patrol guy. Was disabled by multiple sclerosis and had the most
fascinating combat stories. He was promoted out of that office to become a regional manager, or something like that. He worked pretty hard and was liked by
everyone.
It seems though that his service record was all a fabrication, he had never left the states. One on hand I understand it. Someone who has served but never been in combat is looked down on by those who have been in combat, or even in a combat zone. That is one of the reasons I fought so hard to be deployed currently. I have twenty five years in, served in uniform during three conflicts, yet I have been considered "less than" by many who have been deployed. There is an attitude that if you haven't "seen the elephant" your credibility is suspect. Argh, I digress. My point is that sometimes people fabricate a life of lies to fit in, not just to scam the government. However in the case of the "former POW's" that is contemptable. Eric
"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776 |
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eagle7 |
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The VA jobs counsellor you knew was getting more than mere acceptance from his charade; he had a good job and a big promotion, probably somewhat due to his
tall stories. If his VN service was bunk, all the rest of his resume was suspect too. The sad thing is his MS disability probably would have given him an
advantage when he was hired and promoted.
IMO there are two factors that cause guys to fabricate war service. In almost all the cases I've read about, the poser was getting some sort of financial reward by virtue of his "service". The second factor is a psychological need for "hero" status and the respect that goes with it. It's interesting that these guys are never modest when talking themselves up....on the contrary they are very talkative when sharing their war stories. The Army is an odd social organization, and a combat patch is not always a benefit. When I returned with the 3d ACR from Iraq at the end of the 1st Gulf War, if you didn't have a combat patch you were looked down on. One reason for this perception was that many of the troops on rear detachment had ...er..."issues". We all knew that most of the stay behind guys were working a physical, emotional, or "family problem" strategy to avoid deployment. When Regiment re-integrated those guys back into platoons the reception was rather frosty. One tank platoon in my troop refused to allow an E-6 back in their platoon due to the fact everybody knew he was a gutless weasel. However, as the old Gulf War guys were PCSed to new duty stations, many of the new guys that replaced them didn't have service in the Gulf. In time these non-combat patch guys outnumbered the troops that had deployed to Iraq. Many of these guys were NCOs and officers who had been in TDA units, or whatever. I guess these guys had a chip on their shoulders or something, because as the 3d ACR GW veterans became a minority, attitudes changed to the point that the GW guys were "dinosaurs" or relics". It is also interesting that DA made a show of not having any preference to the GW vets when it came to selection for promotion, re-assignment or schools. |
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Budop |
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I have a reasonable amount of combat time. Couple purple hearts to show for it.
I may have a different experience, but I sure don't look down on anybody who manned up and did their time. Combatant or whatever. I don't believe many of us actually do. I wouldn't think much of someone who does. We all had our parts. I just got no use for anybody who faild to serve-whatever the time. |
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MP1978 |
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I don't have much use for posers. I see them all the time at the range and gun shows. I even had one as a client till I started dropping names of a couple
guys who really did the job he was claiming to do. The guys would have been his commanders in the unit he named. He's no longer my client as he decided to
go elswhere and I don't miss him...Jim
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7GREEN |
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Eagle7-I found your comments interesting. Several people I knew who were on AD and served in the 1st Gulf War
told me those who "dodged the column" found their names at the top of list when the "Drawdown" started-one veteran said he knew of an E-7 who got the boot-"denied reenlistment" was the way it was done. A womman officer I knew in the Reserves who commanded a maintenance company in Desert Storm said easily 50% of her battlaion applied for relief from overseas duty citing "family problems"-word cam down from On High that you're going, that's the end of it. We discussed poseurs some tim ago, I cited Joe McCarthy-THAT Joe McCarthy-"Tailgunner Joe" hough he was a commisioned officer and AFAIK the Marines had no crew served aircraft in WWII. LBJ and his Silver Star. Charles A. May who led the celebrated charge against the Mexican guns was regarded as a fraud and a poseur who took credit for other people's achievements. CNO ADM Jeremy Boorda-wearing Vs for Valor he was not authorized. I am waiting for "Stolen Valor II-the Gulf Wars and Afghanistan". I have not dealt with VA in years, I would have thought they would demand proper documentation, a DD214 and related documents. I just had to bring a birth certificate to replace a LOST driver's license here in NJ. I've only had my license here since 1971. |
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eagle7 |
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I too wondered about POW status verification by the VA when I read that AP news story. I wonder if those characters falsified their DD form 214s. It's not
hard to do if the clerks doing the verifying aren't looking at the documents with a critical eye. For example, a number of supposed veterans of the war in
Iraq/Afghanistan that have joined antiwar organizations have been exposed as frauds, Jesse MacBeth (one of Cindy Sheehan's old buddies) probably being the
most flamboyant faker. He claimed to be a former Ranger NCO combat vet and in real life he was kicked out of Basic Training after 21 days in service. Someone
posted his DD 214 and it was so screwed up it was laughable.
Right after Desert Storm Pres. Bush #1 opened up early retirement for anyone with more than 10 years of active service in the Army (the retirement % was pro-rated), and many people took the money and bailed out of the Army. Many of these guys and gals were not exactly model soldiers and many were already looking over their shoulders because of the Army Quality Management Program (QMP) and the re-enlistment/retention control points. For example, there was a Sgt E-5 in my platoon that was approaching his 12th year of service and he knew there was NO WAY he was going to be recommended for promotion. He prudently grabbed the early retirement option rather than hit his 12th anniversary of service and be put out with a lump sum cash settlement and no retirement benefits. There also was a 11C E-7 in my troop that was a fat dopey slob with 17 years time in service who was prime QMP material; he too jumped at the opportunity to take around 45% of his monthly base pay as retirement, plus benefits. The Army works in mysterious ways though. The tanker E-6 that I mentioned earlier (the guy that the other 19Ks in my troop wouldn't let back into their plt.) actually came down on the first ANCOC school list after Desert Storm. Here was a guy that weaseled out of his plt during a wartime deployment and publicly disgraced himself, and DA thought he deserved promotion!!! |
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MP1978 |
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7Green,
Thanks for the correct spelling of "Poseur". All I can think of is something Andrew Jackson once said. "It's a weak mind that can't think of at least two ways to spell a word."..;>)...Jim |
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ball3006 |
I have no use for Vietnam Vet wannabees... | ||
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I see them all the time. Nowadays, you see some guy that is about 40 years old with a Viet vet patch on. Sorry guy, you ain't old enough. My wife's
cousin's husband claims to be a Viet Vet but he isn't. After he asked me what the star was on my Vietnam ribbon was, I knew. His fil confirmed it.
He won't even speak to me anymore. That is fine with me........I don't like fakers.......chris3
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Budop |
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Here are some good folks who work overtime on these issues.
There is a list of every bonafide VN POW as well as other interesting stuff. I'm a bit puzzled on the VA falling for some of the things mentioned. Perhaps a bit over sensationalised. The youngest VN Vets are pushing 60-most of us past it. http://www.pownetwork.org/ |
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eagle7 |
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Perhaps I'm cynical, but nothing surprises me. As long as a certain status confers preferential treatment, there will be imposters. I'm sure that there
were members of veterans' organizations 100 years ago that claimed to be Civil War soldiers. Heck, there were probably ancient Greeks that claimed they
marched into Persia with Alexander the Great.
I once met a guy who claimed to be a Korean war vet. I latter discovered he was 14 years old in 1953. |
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eb in oregon |
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Sometimes a certain veteran status is actually laid upon, or ascribed to others.
I get younger guys asking me all the time about Custer and the little Bighorn. Whipper snappers. Sniff. eb
"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776 |
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7GREEN |
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IIRC the vast majority of PoWs from Vietnam were pilots, they were the only ones who consistently operated over
enemy territory, there were no mass surrenders such as Bataan or the smashing of the 106th Infantry Division at the Bulge nor anything comparable to the retreat of the 8th Army in Korea in late 1950. I recall reading an article years ago that said WWII PoWs who were not from Bataan or Air Corps often found a stigma attached to them, the article said they were often regarded as the "Hands Up" guys. I rarely talk about my experiences, I tell people about San Juan Hill and my .45-70 and they give me strange looks... |
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Budop |
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You can never underestimate loudmouths.
A friend's father was taken at Bataan and worked the mines in Japan. When he got home to my hillbilly hometown there were remarks about "He's too fat-musta collaborated." He raised a good family, worked as a lineman for the power company and drank way too much. Hw was not very social, but I would not want his memories. RIP. |
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