cleaning and maintence in Black Powder Muzzle Loaders Forum

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cleaning and maintence

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dutchmills	cleaning and maintence	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 4 12 3:45 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Well I just spendt the last 6 hours doing maintence on my 16 muzzle loaders, swabbing bores, checking nipples, wipeing down barrels on the outside, ect, ect. We've all done it, and actually, its quite pleasant! Its like getting re-aquainted with old friends, and the 3 military 58's i have are just begging for a trip to the range, big bullets, lots of smoke and thunderation, hoo yah!! DM
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Aubullet		#1	[-]
Posts: 2014 Apr 4 12 8:06 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Booooom on Big Fella!!!
nothernug		#2	[-]
Posts: 13330 Apr 5 12 12:31 AM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sounds like spring cleaning. Do you roll cartridges or just load by the round? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. Sam Adams
dutchmills		#3	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 5 12 1:38 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	hi nug, no, i've never learned how to roll paper cartridges, finding nitrated paper (cartridge paper) just seems a bit much. I do reload metallic cartridges how ever. back in the 60's i did make nitrated paper rounds for percussion revolvers, worked fairly well ( i have 5 percussion revolvers) mostly just loose powder and ball works for me. I need to slug the bore on my .54 sharps, i think its closer to .52 than anything. I need to find out. DM
nothernug		#4	[-]
Posts: 13330 Apr 6 12 9:47 AM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nitrated paper was only rarely used and especially not for the muzzleloading rifles and muskets. I have a sticky about them here>>> http://milsurpshooter.net/topic/39705 The true military paper cartridge could get quite involved utilizing up the three layers of different papers including something like card stock. The basic commonality was that the tail was bitten off, the powder poured down the bore and then the ball loaded. In the smoothbore flintlock days, the first part of the powder was dabbled into the pan and the frizzen closed before loading the barrel.* The ball was then either loaded paper and all with the paper acting as a patch to hold the ball or, the ball extracted from the paper and the paper used as an over powder wad. * This is of course extremely hazardous and while ok for a 'Lobsterback' soldier of a couple centuries past, nothing we would ever want to do here and now! In it's simplest form, if making some for your own use, get a wooden dowel closely matching the bore diameter. use something like newsprint or manila paper. Roll the paper around the dowel and tie, tape or glue one end (originals were tied with string). Then pour in a measured powder charge and twist and fold over the trailing end. To use, bite or tear off the tail, pour in the charge and peel off the paper to load your ball. Shot charges could be wrapped in a separate paper and the whole thing loaded. That sticky will tell you all and more than you want to know about it. There was another thing. Dixie Gun Works used to sell (This was decades ago, that I got them.) pasteboard tubes that had a cap for one end. measure in your powder charge and plug the open end with your ball. To load, pull the ball, pour the powder and save the tube to reuse. I don't know if they still sell such or not. If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. Sam Adams
Aubullet		#5	[-]
Posts: 2014 Apr 6 12 6:28 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I believe nitrated paper was the standard for the breechloading Sharps of the Civil War era, prior to the metallic cartridge version. The bullet still wrapped with the paper cartridge filled with powder, was inserted into the breech with the paper tail hanging out, which was then sheared off with the closing of the action, IIRC.
dutchmills		#6	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 8 12 11:36 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks guys, for nitrated paper i was refering to my sharps breech loader. Took my 1863 Remington to the range friday, it will stay on a silhouette target at 100 yards with round ball or 500 grain minnies, pyrodex seems to be more accurate than 2fg black. I was loading 60 grain (by measure) of RS pyrodex, equivlent to 72 grains of 2fg black, powder charge, then a 12 gage fiber wad, then a patched round ball or minnie. Fiber wad insures the pyrodex goes off, otherwise, just a poof! and the bullet falls to the ground in front of you. Round ball is a .575 with a .005 patch , lubed with wonder lube. Every now and then, ball will hit within 2 inches of where it is aimed, fired 35 rounds all told, fun!!! DM
Aubullet		#7	[-]
Posts: 2014 Apr 8 12 12:46 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Get rid of the fiber wad if you want the minie to expand properly. But 72g of 2Fg may be a bit too much kick, and cause the skirt on the minie to overexpand unevenly as it leaves the muzzle, causing inaccuracy as well. There is a fine art to shooting the minie ball, and I have to admit that I haven't truly mastered it yet myself.
dutchmills		#8	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 9 12 11:56 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thank you for the info, for the minnie i'll try 60 grains of 2fg black sans the wad. I havent mastered the art of getting accuracy from these rifles by a long shot. All help is greatly appreciated!! DM
TP		#9	[-]
Posts: 1114 Apr 10 12 8:50 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	60 grains was the standard military charge for the .58 Rifle Musket in US Service and it can be a good starting place, it was more than enough to put down the most dangerous game on the planet - an armed enemy soldier - at up to 500 yards and do it consistently. But if you are interested in consistent accuracy with the .58 Minié ball, start at 35 grains and work up, you will rarely need the full bore 60 grain load for the best accuracy. Most championship shooters get world class accuracy in the 40 grain area. Also, size your Miniés to no larger (or smaller) than .002 under the exact bore diameter. For more information, Google "N-SSA" (North - South Skirmish Association) for their website and discussion Forums. You'll never find more knowledgeable or dedicated shooters of the rifle musket. (And, neither you nor I will never beat them at the range either. )
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dutchmills	range report	#10	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 10 12 6:17 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ok, i've just returned from the range, rifle was an 1863 Remington, .577 minnie, 60 grains of 2fg black, range 100 yards, 1st pix, fired 5 shots, got 1 hit. 2nd pix .577 minnie 65 grains of 2fg, much better! 3rd pix .577 minnie, 70 grains of 2fg black, got 4 hits out of 5
dutchmills	1853 3 band enfield	#11	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 10 12 6:24 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	this rifle has an over size bore, .580's free fall in the bore so... I used .588 minnies, 1st pix 65 grains of 2fg....2nd pix 70 grains of 2fg....3rd pix 75 grains of 2fg. that round in the head on the 2nd pix was my fault, a .577 got in the mix
dutchmills		#12	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 10 12 6:32 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	and a big "Thank you" to Aubullet and TP, I will check out the nssa web site, altho, this is prolly the best i can shoot these rifles with my 70 year old eyes. By the by, where can you find sizeing dies for .58 caliber? The remington checks out at .580, and the .588"s have to have a ball starter in the enfield, i think a .585 or .586 would work better, hard to find moulds in those sizes DM
Aubullet		#13	[-]
Posts: 2014 Apr 11 12 10:02 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Probably best to check out the info on the N-SSA site for sources of special sized molds and sizer dies. I'd guess you'll find reference to lots of suttlers and vendors on there. Or if you have a machinist friend, you might get a die made to your specific dimensions. I just use a piece of pipe and a wood dowel, when I even bother to use it at all, but the pipe was bored out to a specific dimension and the end of the dowel is shaped to fit the hollow base cavity just so. If you can get an oversized mold, there is also a way to roll them to a consistent diameter between two flat plates (metal or glass both work) using gauge pins of your desired diameter to control the finished size. I should also point out that it is very important that you use lead of the same quality and hardness (preferably pure lead) for your minie's to insure the same amount of skirt expansion from the same powder charge each time.
dutchmills		#14	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 11 12 10:20 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Good point! I knew about "rolling" round ball but never considered it for minnies. I'm using pure lead, scrap plumbers lead that i buy from the scrap metal yard. I'm probably going to be happy with what i have, minute of paper plate, as i shoot these rifles very little. I have a number of round ball rifles that are quite accurate , and use less powder and lead, and therefor, get shot a lot more. I have a system for capturing fired round ball that works well on my range at home, but the minnie rifles are too powerfull and noisy for my 50 yard range. I recycle all the fired lead back into the lead pot and cast round ball and shoot again. I have to admit, i love the smell of black powder smoke in the morning!!! DM
dutchmills		#15	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 11 12 11:58 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Holy Cow! I have barely scratched the surface over on NSSA website and allready i see stuff i want to try!!! Gadzooks! I love front loaders!! DM..........again, Thanks to TP and Aubullet for the insight.
Aubullet		#16	[-]
Posts: 2014 Apr 11 12 9:01 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	dutchmills wrote: Ok, i've just returned from the range, rifle was an 1863 Remington, .577 minnie, 60 grains of 2fg black, range 100 yards, 1st pix, fired 5 shots, got 1 hit. 2nd pix .577 minnie 65 grains of 2fg, much better! 3rd pix .577 minnie, 70 grains of 2fg black, got 4 hits out of 5 Are you sure that's only 4 hits on the last target? From the picture I'd be tempted to call the hit at 11:00 o'clock on the lower plate a double, but of course seeing it in person on the plate itself may well look different!
dutchmills		#17	[-]
Posts: 1228 Apr 12 12 6:40 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hummnnn, i do remember that was a big hole, took 2 patches to cover it, though that was odd., didnt consider that might be a double. Might have to re-test that 70 grain load Thanks! DM
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