Gew 88 Ex-Ecuador Rifles

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A1Coyote	Gew 88 Ex-Ecuador Rifles	Lead	[-]
Posts: 168 (10/15/06 10:14 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None A lot of people have been buying up rifles exported from Ecuador. I would like to ask any members who have bought these rifles if they can post the Regimental Stamps to this thread as a sort of experiment. I have learned alot about the rifle at this forum, so I will give a shot at giving something back to those interested in the historical aspect of this significant rifle. This quote was taken from the Military Mauser Forum at gunboards in response to my question regarding G 98 distribution: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mman First "issue" were troop trials beginning in Feb, 1899. by 1.Garde-Regiment zu Fuss, the Garde-Jager-Bataillon, the Garde-Schutzen-Bataillon and Infanterie-Schiess-Schule in Spandau. from Walter, "The German Rifle". Jack ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gew 88's were replaced by the Gew. 98 starting in 1900. We know the first troops (other than the troops involved in the trials) to be issued G 98's were of the German East Asian Expeditionary Corps sent to China during the Boxer Rebellion. On another forum I read that the 1st Armee Korps to receive G 98's were the Garde Korps, and those on the French Frontier, the XVI , XV Armee Korps. According to the famous author and bayonet collector Anthony Carter from his book German Bayonets Volume II, the first 4 Armee Korps were: Garde Korps III Armee Korps V A.K. VIII A.K. The goal here would be to see if these Ecuadoran G88's were amongst the first to be replaced (according to their reg. marks) by the G 98. NOTE: Just one request please, just advise if any of the letters in your Regimental mark is in itallics or not, it can change the identification of the Regiment or unit. I will use my rifle as an example: 4.R.6.37 = 4th Regiment, except my R is in itallics, so the true I.D = 4th Reserve Regiment. I have posted an identical thread on the Mannlicher, Steyr, & Blackpowder Cartridge Rifles forum at the "other" gunboards, and will keep a running total on both. If you are a member of both forums you would only need to post on one or the other I am by no means an expert, if anybody sees a misidentification, please let me know. Corrections will be made when needed. I am just like everybody else, just a collector trying to learn about my hobby and enjoy doing it. To make things easy to understand I will list abbreviations & terms. (For anyone not familier with these terms.) A.K. = Armee Korps, Army Corps Gren. = Grenadier Reg. = Regiment Res. = Reserve Rek. = Rekrutendepot or Recruit Depot(BootCamp) Pionier = Pioneer or Combat Engineer Fus. = Fusilier waffe = weapon (rifle & bayonet)
figmo	Re: regimental markings	#1	[-]
Posts: 370 (10/15/06 04:29 PM) Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Only half of my rifles have regimental stamps. Here's what I've got: 2.G.G.R.R.1 1.G.R.L R.E.23 K.F.R.E.4 K.A.R.E.4 10.J.E.2 * 27.R.13 * 1.G.R.12 2.G.R.2 G.F.R.E.24. G.R.E.2 (#234) G.R.E.2 (#244) * These two are xed out and really hard to make out, so I'm not 100% sure about them.
pattern14	Re: regimental markings	#2	[-]
Posts: 158 (10/15/06 09:09 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Only one of the five I have is marked so here it is. 2GGRRE1-134
Gamallin	Re: regimental markings	#3	[-]
Posts: 10 (10/16/06 03:14 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Here are the markings on the 5 I got from OWS: LOEWE BERLIN 1891 - G.F.R.E.4.19 SPANDAU 1895 - 3.G.R. (the band was broken) SPANDAU 1895 - 3.G.R.8.38 (possibly same unit as previous?) ERFURT 1892 - K.A.R.7.146 STEYR 1894 - 4.G.G.R.R.11.67. The other 2 from Centerfire were rusty and I haven't disassembled or cleaned them up yet...
Ferguss	Re: regimental markings	#4	[-]
Posts: 336 (10/16/06 07:59 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Great idea! I'll try and post mine this week.
A1Coyote	Re: regimental markings	#5	[-]
Posts: 168 (10/17/06 09:36 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	All interesting regimentals figmo. The 2 rifles that are x-ed out, are there replacement regimentals on them? They Are: 10 Jager Bataillon Ersatz Btn 2 Kompanie 27 Inf. Reg. 13 Ko. 177 ( xxxed out) 2 Garde Grenadier Reserve Rekrutendepot. 1 Kompanie 1 Garde Reg. zu Fuss Lieb (Royal Body Guard) 2 Garde Gren. Reg.(Kaiser Franz) Ersatz Btn. 4 Ko. 1 Garde Gren. Reg.(Kaiser Alexander) Ersatz Btn. 4 Ko. 1 Garde Reg. zu Fuss 12 Ko. 2 Garde Reg. zu Fuss 2 Ko. Garde Fusilier Reg. Ersatz Btn 24 Ko. Garde Reg. Ersatz Btn. 2 Ko. weapon 234 Garde Reg. Ersatz Btn. 2 Ko. weapon 244 Res. Reg. Ers. Btn. Ko. 23 weapon 185(x-ed out)27.R.13.177
A1Coyote	Re: regimental markings	#6	[-]
Posts: 168 (10/17/06 09:41 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	pattern14 2 Garde Gren. Reserve Rekrutendepot 1 Kompanie weapon 134
A1Coyote	Re: regimental markings	#7	[-]
Posts: 168 (10/17/06 09:49 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Gamallin Garde Fusilier Regiment Ersatz Btn. 4 Kompanie weapon 19 3 Garde Reg. zu Fuss 3 Garde Reg. zu Fuss 8 Ko. weapon 38 1 Garde Gren. Reg.(Kaiser Alexander) 7 Ko. weapon 146 4 Garde Gren. Res. Rekrutendepot. 11 Ko. weapon 67
figmo	Re: regimental markings	#8	[-]
Posts: 370 (10/18/06 12:07 AM) Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Only one rifle had 2 bands with regimental markings - my Steyr 1889 G Mod 88. Front band is "27.R.13.177" (xed). Rear band is "R.E.23.185." Both bands are #85, and since this rifle has almost all matching parts, it seems likely that both bands are original to it.
A1Coyote	Re: regimental markings	#9	[-]
Posts: 168 (10/18/06 07:45 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Res.Reg.Ers.Btn.Ko.23 waffe 185(x-edout)27.R.13.177. This one is sort of an unknown to me. I am unfamiliar how the Imperial German Armee went about transferring ownership of rifles. Did they stay in the same Armee Korps? Maybe. If so, the original Reg. marking, 27.R.13.177 was the 27 Infantrie Reg.which was in the IV Armee Korps. Perhaps that is how this rifle should be listed. Can anyone shed any light on this? I had picked up a replacement stock some time back that came with the upper & lower barrel bands. The upper had the x-ed out regiment, lower band had the new reg. stamps, both matched the stock, action & action bolts.
AlamoCity	Re: regimental markings	#10	[-]
Posts: 287 (10/18/06 10:04 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My 1890 Loewe G.mod 88 is marked: 109.R.8.227. 109th Baden Life Guard Regiment. I believe they were part of the XIV Armee Korps. But being on the frontier and being an elite royal guard regiment, it would make sense that they recieve upgraded weapons early on. T
A1Coyote	Re: regimental markings	#11	[-]
Posts: 168 (10/19/06 06:52 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	AlamoCity thanks for posting! 109 Badisches Leib-Gren.Reg. 8 Ko. waffe 227
A1Coyote	Re: regimental markings	#12	[-]
Posts: 168 (10/20/06 08:23 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I am using information written by Anthony Carter from his book German Bayonets Volume II. He noted that the original plan was to equip all the Imperial German armies with the G 98 within 5 years after mass production began in 1900. This period was extended to equipping all front line units by 1907, then starting a second production series in 1912 to arm Reserve and Landwehr units.Carter made a conclusion based on his observation of S98 bayonets and their unit markings and date stamps of the order of which the Armee Korps were issued their G98's starting from 1899 - 1908.I will be adding the Regimental Markings that have been contributed under the appropriate Armee Korps 1898 - 1908. I will also be placing an * next to the Armee Korps that were facing the French Frontier during this same period. The following is his list. 1. G.K. 2. III.A.K. 3. V.A.K. 4. VIII.A.K. 5. IX.A.K. 6. XII.A.K. 7. XIII.A.K. 8. XIX.A.K. 9. X.A.K. 10. I.A.K 11. II.A.K. 12. XVII.A.K. 13. XVIII.A.K. 14. XV.A.K. * 15. XVI.A.K. * 16. XI.A.K. 17. VI.A.K. 18. VII.A.K. 19. BavI.A.K 20. BavII.A.K. 21.BavIII.A.K.
A1Coyote	Re: regimental markings	#13	[-]
Posts: 168 (10/20/06 08:34 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Garde Korps 1 Garde Reg.zu Fuss Lieb (Royal Body Guard) 1 Garde Reg.zu Fuss 12 Ko. 2 Garde Reg.zu Fuss 2 Ko. 2 Garde Reg.zu Fuss 10 Ko. waffe 230 2 Garde Reg.zu Fuss Ers.Btn. 4 Ko. waffe 61 3 Garde Reg.zu Fuss 3 Garde Reg.zu Fuss 8 Ko.waffe 38 3 Garde Reg.zu Fuss 12 Ko. waffe 221 3 Garde Reg.zu Fuss Ers.Btn.4 Ko. waffe 37 4 Garde Res.Reg.zu Fuss Rek. 1 Ko. waffe 15 Garde Fusilier Reg.Ers.Btn. 4 Ko. waffe 19 Garde Fusilier Reg.Ers.Btn 24 Ko. 1 Garde Gren.Reg.(Kaiser Alexander) 7 Ko. waffe 146 1 Garde Gren.Reg.(Kaiser Alexander)Ers.Btn.4 Ko 1 Garde Gren.Res.Rek.3 Ko. waffe 32 2 Garde Gren.Reg.(Kaiser Franz)Ers.Btn 2 Garde Gren.Reg.(Kaiser Franz)Ers.Btn. 4 Ko. 2 Garde Gren.Res.Reg. Rek. 1 Ko. 2 Garde Gren.Res.Reg. Rek. 1 Ko. waffe 134 3 Garde Gren.Reg.10 Ko. waffe 52 3 Garde Gren.Reg.Ers.Btn. 4 Ko. waffe 193 4 Garde Gren.Res.Rek.11 Ko. waffe 67 Garde Reg. Ers.Btn. 2 Ko. waffe 234 Garde Reg. Ers.Btn. 2 Ko. waffe 244 Unteroffizierschule Potsdam 4 Ko. waffe 110 6 Garde Pionier Btn.2 Ko. waffe 37 Garde Res.Jager Btn.3 Ko. waffe 144
A1Coyote	Re: regimental markings	#14	[-]
Posts: 168 (10/20/06 08:36 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	XIV Armee Korps 109 Badisches Leib-Gren.Reg. 8 Ko. waffe 227 10 Jager Bataillon Ersatz Btn 2 Kompanie
A1Coyote	Re: regimental markings	#15	[-]
Posts: 168 (01/28/07 09:00 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The results of this exercise was that by far, mostly all of the Ecuador rifles that were submitted are former Garde Korps rifles. I originally felt that there would have been a mix of Garde Korps & XV & XVI Armee Korps. My thought was that they were sold off after being replaced by the Gew 98. After reading the thread "The 88 in Ecuador" started by BillOregon and the link that was posted by geneh regarding Mausers in Central / South American countries I am still not sure. If I read the article correctly, Ecuador came up with the funding to buy modern rifles in 1904, and that is possibly when these 88's were sold to them. What direction can we search for more information now?
Caddy Kid	Re: regimental markings	#16	[-]
Posts: 641 (02/03/07 05:49 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The one band that I have reads: 2.G.G.R.R. 1 .20 . -Brian
1oldgun	Gew 1888 Commission Rifles	#17	[-]
Posts: 7 (02/18/09 12:57 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	On my 1890 Spandau the band with the bayonet lug reads: E. 21. 153 Lower band is X out but both bands match the gun
major99		#18	[-]
Posts: 2 (02/18/09 01:54 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The dates posted on the Gew-98 usage are a good starting point. Ecuador got their First batch of Gew-88 rifles in the 1900 - 1904 period, comfirmed by the major front line German unit marking [ as they were the first to refit with the Gew-98 ] All sales of Gew-88's stopped in 1905 as the Germans almost went to war then, and went with the massive reserve army system. They were really short of rifles, the Gew-88's were updated to Gew-98 operation standards with the 05 update. They also bought a second batch from the Czechs in the mid 1930's. The Czechs got these rifles as WWI war spoils from Austria, Those rifles were still 88/s rifles, no 05's . That is why so many of the South American import rifles are found with the Austrian / Czech style rear sling swivels. The Czechs rebarreled those rifles with the odd small size bores and made a special short loaded, .3155 dia bullet, cartridge for those barrels. All the Czech ammo is dated mid 1930's . When the Germans took over the Czechs in 1938, they recorded "capturing" about 1500 of these Gew-88's .
1oldgun	Gew 88 Ex-Ecuador Rifles	#19	[-]
Posts: 8 (02/18/09 06:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	major99- Where did you obtain this information? From a book? If so, would you mind sharing the name of the book as I would really like to get it if it's still in print!