Case of Stolen Valor?

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CHU Lai 68	Case of Stolen Valor?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1920 (10/22/07 07:14 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Just so happens i'm in the middle of the "Stolen Valor" book, and today i am paying for lunch at the local cafe and i notice a gentleman checking out with a Vietnam Vet hat on. Since he was parked next to me, i struck up a conversation with him and in the space of less than 5 minutes he told me the following: Spent 5 years in Nam, 10 years in the Army and Marines combined. During his 5 years in Nam, he was in Force Recon with the Marines, Special Forces with the Army, Black Ops, Long Range Recon Patrol (LRRPs) AND a sniper with a .50 caliber rifle(did we use them then?) He also was trained at Quantico where the FBI trained AND did encryption school at Ft. Huachuka. He said out of his original group of 250 only 40 survived the War. He said there was no way he could put all that stuff on his hat....and i'm like...uh, o.k. wow..well i gotta go. I have little doubt he was there, as he had some knowledge of the terminology. Considering some 80% of the troops in Vietnam were support...where the heck are they? Everybody i meet was in Combat Arms or "Special" Forces. When i hear somebody spouting all that "info" at me in just a couple minutes, i am highly skeptical. I just do not think most VN Vets would do that....do ya'll? My wife said "You didn't even get a chance to tell him anything about you"..I said i just wanted to get away...so i told him "Welcome Home" and got in the car. Disturbing.
trautert		#1	[-]
Posts: 4931 (10/22/07 09:13 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think you had him pegged, Rick. REMF suffering from an inferiority complex now. Or never there but reads a lot. Tom Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
7GREEN		#2	[-]
Posts: 366 (10/23/07 12:49 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Maybe he was a reenactor. I have known a couple of Rev War and Civil War reenactors who do first person impressions, who remain in character for the whole event. Also in re-enacting if you make a mistake in your uniform, accoutrements, or terminology you receive the dreaded label of "Farb." Both Marines and Special Forces, eh. A real Marine wou;ld have asked him what his serial was, a real Vietnam SF type would have asked him his team number and the names of some of the people he served with. You're right, at least he reads a lot, gets the terminology right. Like an actor doing a character study. Last Edited By: 7GREEN 10/23/07 12:51 AM. Edited 1 times.
rumbum		#3	[-]
Posts: 90 (10/23/07 10:38 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I know what you mean, Chu Lai 68. I have "customers" come in all the time telling me how they are VN combat vets. Everybody is a combat vet who served in Da Nang. Must have been a real busy place. Some of them were only 15 or 16 at war's end, so I know THEY are lying, and I tell them so. I say to myself - gee guys, if you are going to lie, know your history. I'm sure many of these guys are more of those "phoney soldiers".
Budop		#4	[-]
Posts: 182 (10/23/07 06:15 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	He is a lying POS. I spend a lot of time on another military board where there is a highly respected member who claims SF, but is also a lying POS. I have never called him on it, no point. He only speaks in the broadest generalizations, uses pictures from public sites and none of the language or terminology anybody from SF would. Funny how many VN Vet posers are out thre considering how hard a lot of people tried to keep out of it. Team number is no good, that's easy to make up. Can't tell you the real test-classified...haw!
MP78		#5	[-]
Posts: 1764 (10/23/07 07:26 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I know the Barrett m/82a1 and now the Barrett m/101 shoot the 50cal. Browning m/2 round but these are modern inventions and not present in VN. Was there a rifle in country that fired this round? I was thinking that most of the sniper rifles dated from this time period were 7.62x51, 30/06 or .300 Win Mag. Hey Budop, Did you ever cross paths with a friend of mine named Chuck Delano?
m1 talker		#6	[-]
Posts: 5519 (10/23/07 07:29 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	These people were too chicken**** to wear the uniform when they had the chance and are now creating lies to cover up their cowardice. If they were in the service and was a REMF, so what? So they didn't kill the enemy. But our guys still had to eat and have mail service. How many of you guys who spent time in the war zone cherished the letters from back home and your girl friends? Without the REMF folks, you would have probably gone hungry for both food and news from the homefront, as shabby as it was. But to make up tall tales of combat service when the only combat they ever saw was trying to figure out how to untangle their shoe laces is bad, simply bad. Curt
trautert		#7	[-]
Posts: 4934 (10/23/07 08:19 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	A tripod-mounted M2, mounting an AN/TVS-5 scope, fired in single shot mode, made an awesome, almost gruesome 'sniper' rifle. I used one there from perimeter towers, but I don't think that counts as a sniper for anyone who knows what the word really means. Tom Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
nothernug		#8	[-]
Posts: 10292 (10/23/07 10:26 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You know, I have met many "snipers," Spec ops, et al, &tc along the way. But I have yet to meet another, just one other, honest to goodness, white hat wearing, cook! Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
eagle7		#9	[-]
Posts: 3189 (10/25/07 01:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Trautert is right, you could use the M2HB as a "sniper" weapon if you had a good AN/TVS-5 night sight and the mg was set up on a tripod with a T&E. We used to zero them on tripods at Graf in the mid-1980s, but the zero targets were calibrated for a 25 meter range. I don't know how flat the .50 Browning cartridge's trajectory is, and if a 25 meter zero was effective for precision shots at various extended ranges. I do remember you had to use a TVS-5 with a M2 reticle. It also helped to bolt the flash suppressor cone on the end of the barrel....the bright muzzle flash had a tendency to temporarily "washout" the nightsight's optics. The Barrett 50 cal came into service during Gulf War I. I went back to Kuwait in 1993 for an Intrinsic Action deployment and the SF guys we worked with had one. In those days it was a real "gee whiz" weapon. edit. It seems that the further we get from the VN era, the more people pop up that have SF, SEAL, Force Recon, and other exotic VN experience. Most of the guys I knew in the 1970s and 1980s that were VN vets freely admitted that they were in support MOSs. Now it's hard to find a guy who'll admit he was a mechanic or truckdriver over there. Last Edited By: eagle7 10/25/07 01:10 PM. Edited 1 times.
nothernug		#10	[-]
Posts: 10299 (10/25/07 07:03 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My cousin will freely admit, if the subject comes up, that he spent his one tour there in an air conditioned office and glad of it! Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
MP78		#11	[-]
Posts: 1768 (10/27/07 06:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	OK, the m/2 Browning could hit a guy at long range. Now how many guys were assigned to a m/2 heavy machine gun squad? I'm thinking three (3). Then, how many guys were assigned to a sniper squad? The answer is two (2). Can two guys carry the m/2, mount and ammo. As MP's we didn't have the m/2 in our TO&E so can the barrel be changed out like an m/60, which we did have? If it could be changed, then that's just one more item that the crew had to carry which would lend more creadence that a heavy machine gun crew existed of three people. How many sniper teams were issued a m/2? I may be bonkers so you guys that have had that experience could you help me understand...Jim
m1 talker		#12	[-]
Posts: 5526 (10/27/07 08:13 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ma Duce had a spare barrel that was packed along with the tripod, T&E equipment and such. Yeah, it took three men to lug that thing around and get it set up. I seem to think that the total weight of it with all the stuff to go along with it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 240 pounds. I know it was backbreaking work to lug it up a hill and get it in place. I remember the drill when installing the barrel, you had a headspace and timing guage that you had to use on it. I mainly hefted the M-60, but on occasion I was called on to heft the M-2. That was thirty some years ago, but I still have "fond" memories of it. Curt
trautert		#13	[-]
Posts: 4937 (10/27/07 08:30 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Size and weight of .50 ammo alone makes it a crew served weapon in every sense of the term. Tom Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
7GREEN		#14	[-]
Posts: 370 (10/27/07 10:54 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	IIRRC the M-2 weighs about 80 lbs, the tripod about 40, a box of ammunition about 25-30 lbs. Only time I handled them was in mech units, mounted on the commander's hatch of the M-113. Only case I have read of them being used as a sniper weapon was by Carlos Hathcock, that was what he used for his 2500 yard shot.
nothernug		#15	[-]
Posts: 10304 (10/28/07 01:48 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You could learn to feather single shots out of an M2, but a "sniper shot" ??? The sights weren't exactly that fine or the ammo what you'd call "match grade." I've heard a lot about Hathcock (never studied on the subject in any detail) but that sounds farfetched unless it was a lucky shot. And what little I've heard about him doesn't suggest luck had much to do with anything. Is that shot legit? Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
trautert		#16	[-]
Posts: 4938 (10/28/07 01:51 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The M2 has a selector to fire single shots or automatic fire. Off a tripod, using the Traverse and Elevation mechanism, the shots are very precise. Keep in mind that recoil is meaningless on this setup, as long as the tripod is set in. With the TVS-5 scope on it, it will make the shot. The issue would be setting it up. It would have to be in a fixed defensive position, not schlepped through a jungle by a two man sniper team. Tom Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
nothernug		#17	[-]
Posts: 10305 (10/28/07 02:41 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Selector switch? Don't remember that and we didn't have scopes for 'em so I didn't even know there were such. We trained mostly off the turrets of the M109s but sometimes fired them off tripods at the range. Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
m1 talker		#18	[-]
Posts: 5532 (10/28/07 02:53 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yeah, ours had the selector switch on them also. Where I got the 240 pounds was I think in the manual for the Ma Duce for a complete setup. If it did not weigh that much, so be it. It has been thirty years since I had the "pleasure" of hufting one around. But after a while it sure felt like 240 pounds! I know it took one guy with the tripod and T&E mechanism and spare barrel, one guy for the gun itself, and an ammo bearer. Could have always used another guy, but that is not what was meant to be. Curt
eagle7		#19	[-]
Posts: 3192 (10/28/07 08:59 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The gizmos that put the M2HB into full automatic mode are the bolt release and the bolt latch release lock. They are located between the two "butterfly" triggers. When the bolt release (a knurled springloaded "button") is in the up position the M2HB is a single shot. You have to push the bolt release after every shot to to release the bolt and chamber another round. When you want the M2HB to be fully automatic, you lock the bolt release in the down position with the bolt latch release lock. BTW the M2HB barrel and receiver weigh 84 pounds, and the tripod and T&E mechanism weigh 44 pounds. And then there's the spare barrel, ammo cans, TVS-5 nightsight........ I wonder why a telescopic daysight of about 10x has never been developed for this weapon. It does have an effective max range of 1832 meters.
MP78		#20	[-]
Posts: 1770 (10/29/07 07:59 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	So by all accounts this is just one more piece of evidence that this bragart was full of horse manure. Believe it or not when I was assigned to the Co. A 385th Mp's we had a Ma Duce in our arms room. It wasn't in our TO&E so every time there was a IG inspection we had to lug it out and put it in a dumpster so it wasn't seen. No one wanted to fill out the paperwork to say how we had it, when our unit was no longer supposed to have one, so they just hid it. Of course it also never made the trip to the range for firing so I'm not familiar with one. Thanks for the info. Come to think of it I should have just stolen it and sent it back to the World as parts in other stuff. If we weren't supposed to have it who would have wanted to fill out the theft report....Jim