unfired lithgow 1941

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Ed Novak		#41	[-]
Posts: 1718 (11/18/08 11:25 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Eric: Glad you showed up again; I have a serious problem here. I have an '04 BSA Mk.1** I.P., a '17 BSA Mk.III* with Australian ownership stampings and a '42 Lithgow SMLE hanging above my downstairs fireplace (guarded by a 5lb Yorkie and his big brother 125lb Lab). Also have a '43 M39 and a '27 M91/30 hanging there. Have only 5 sets of pegs. Have that '42 B barreled M39 you repaired for me in the gun-safe and it is whining for space above the mantle. No room for more pegs. What to do? Can neither raise the ceiling nor lower the mantle.
eb in oregon		#42	[-]
Posts: 332 (11/19/08 12:16 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well Ed, seems to me that there is a doorway some where about that is just crying for a little TLC and some "historic" decoration just above it. All you have to do is find the right doorway. "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776
wsmrto		#43	[-]
Posts: 427 (11/19/08 01:46 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	EB//Eric: Thanks for all the positive comments about my "Enfield". I must admit I am somewhat let down that it is a somewhat afflicted as far as a collectable. However, I am aware that it is a beautiful rifle in its own right. I also know it may be in a general class such as the CAI put togethers and the old Gibbs//Navy Arms and even the Mitchael's Mausers now. What choice do I have, I can't palm it off to some other nut who is blinded by it's beauty. It will be a nice looking range rifle and who knows, it may be a great shooter.
Ed Novak		#44	[-]
Posts: 1719 (11/19/08 09:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	wsmrto wrote: EB//Eric: Thanks for all the positive comments about my "Enfield". I must admit I am somewhat let down that it is a somewhat afflicted as far as a collectable. However, I am aware that it is a beautiful rifle in its own right. I also know it may be in a general class such as the CAI put togethers and the old Gibbs//Navy Arms and even the Mitchael's Mausers now. What choice do I have, I can't palm it off to some other nut who is blinded by it's beauty. It will be a nice looking range rifle and who knows, it may be a great shooter. I may be way off-base here, wsmrto, having no knowledge of the terms of sale, but is there any chance that the seller would take this rifle back in trade for some other rifle you'd be happier to have? If so, you will not want to fire it. Then, again, there are other buyers "out there" who may well be eager to have your rifle. I referred, in previous posting(s) to the fact that several years ago, on an old Enfield forum, there were many people who cared not one bit about the Lithgow not having "Australian ownership". As I said, wait a bit, consider your possible options and then decide what you want to do. You are correct about the M. Mausers - I may not have any use at all for one of them but MM is not buying add-space for something they are not selling. Wish you well in whatever choice you make. Stay in touch, please. Eric: Excellent idea. I have a man's man's bedroom (to which I was banished for snoring). The M91/30 is unlikely to object to my snoring and there is room to mount it with bayonet, ready for defense of MY space.
eb in oregon		#45	[-]
Posts: 336 (11/19/08 09:25 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Woe to the poor unwitting burgler that sneaks down your hallway at night, only to be confronted by an enraged Yorkie and a middle aged fella with an "eight foot long rifle, with a freaking spear on the end of it!" "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776
temperflash		#46	[-]
Posts: 344 (11/20/08 01:45 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Beauty of a rifle regardless of collector value or lack thereof. Back around the early 90's I saw an advert for unissued Lithgow barreled receivers, they were priced at $35 each. Could be this and similar sell offs of new old stock from armories and perhaps subcontractors provided barreled receivers and some with bolts already fitted, while its possible some actions were fitted with un numbered replacement bolts which were then numbered to the rifle. I'd check head space and if thats within limits I'd test fire it remotely a few times and check the fied cases, just to be sure everything is mechanically sound, then baby it but shoot it whenever you feel like doing so just as you would a new commercial rifle or one of the Enfield clones that have been advertised in recent years. Whether you got stuck or not depends on how much you put in it. Considering the prices of those clone Enfields a new condition No.1 has significant intrinsic value as a shooting iron, and no worry about loss of historical value from making good use of it as a good rifle is meant to be used.
TikiRocker		#47	[-]
Posts: 289 (11/20/08 03:01 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Not to put too fine a point on it; errr what DID you pay for it then? You don't have to answer that but inquiring minds etc.
wsmrto		#48	[-]
Posts: 428 (11/20/08 11:10 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It was one of a two- fer, check out the Military semi-autos a few forums down on this and take a look at the unissued Ljungmen 42B with all the accessaries. The seller wanted 2K for both and I got them for 1600. So figure the Swedish M42 unissued w/ acc. plus the beautiful Enfield. I figure I have 500 to 600 in the #1Mk111* put together Lithgow. I guess it is a fine looking rifle for that amount. If it was an original in the wrap it would be at least $800. In the wrap new Lithgows are hard to find.
MasterChief		#49	[-]
Posts: 981 (11/20/08 11:10 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Your JJNY specimen now has provenance which ironically adds to its intrinsic value. Before it was a suspected bitzer by an unknown entity. Now it is a representative piece from a known importer and has a standing of its own. I remember the ads for these rifles in Shotgun News. And there were several posts and photos of like specimens on various forums over the years. I predict that if you ever sell or exhibit this rifle you will proudly and knowingly proclaim: "It's a John Jovino Lithgow!" PS: Does the forend have the recoil plates in the trigger draw area? Best wishes. Dave
wsmrto		#50	[-]
Posts: 429 (11/20/08 11:14 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks Master Chief for the nice way you spoke about my put together, and Yes it does have the recoil plates.
TikiRocker		#51	[-]
Posts: 291 (11/20/08 11:40 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Wsmrto, Thanks for your candid response ... I don't think you paid an unreasonable price for that rifle; you may well find that over time it will be seen as something in it's own league as Master Chief has stated; this is already starting to happen with parts rifles making big money. I know a dealer putting together post manufacture No4T Snipers fetching about $3600! The parts were certainly manufactured AT the factory they just were not assembled, proofed and finished at the factory ... lacking serial numbers etc. There are people out there that want these rifles and will pay that price ... they are no less valid as rifles go but just a different flavour to be viewed as presentation rifles rather than factory rifles. I'd still shoot em nevertheless ...
5th Batt		#52	[-]
Posts: 18 (11/20/08 02:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Here in NZ we don't seem to see the Jovino Lithgows and would love to get my hands on one. I for one see them as collectible in their own right & would pay a comparable price, but thats just me would like one with the A prefix s/n, but one as good looking with that lovely wood as yours, would do just fine.
Ed Novak		#53	[-]
Posts: 1723 (11/20/08 09:21 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	wsrmto: I think that the latest responses ought to warm your heart and your feelings about your rifle a bit. The interest in LEs has evolved significantly over the past years - I can remember days when an Ishapore posting was considered a bit of trash-talking. As time goes on, these LEs become more scarce and minds open to the fact that there are different approaches to be taken wrt these rifles. "They ain't makin' 'em anymore" has been repeated thousands of time and it remains true.
ParallaxBill		#54	[-]
Posts: 15980 (11/20/08 10:17 PM) Owner/operator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	FWIW, J Jovino did import many legit Lithgows however most were issued and well used as mine was. I've seen a couple of the parts guns which in my opinion looked really nice. I just wish I could remember the small details to look for to add something useful from me for this thread. I should also add that you must remember when the Lithgow #1 MKIIIs were issued. Australia was at war and the likelihood of a lot of rifles being kept in new condition with early war dates was just not probable IMHO. Here is my J Jovino import which as I mentioned, is well used and apparently saw action. It's wood is also covered with many stamps and proofs. 1942 #1 MkIII J Jovino import Parallax *Lee Enfield Collector's Society member #3* *Mauser Shooter's Association member #17* Forum administrator for the Carolina C&R Shooting & Collecting Club, Last Edited By: ParallaxBill 11/20/08 10:26 PM. Edited 1 times.
Ed Novak		#55	[-]
Posts: 1724 (11/20/08 11:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	ParallaxBill has revived an historic issue about JJCO that has often been overlooked; that JJCO did indeed import some "legitimate" Lithgow rifles. The discussions about "legitimate" vs "parts" Lithgows were legion in the years past. Thanks Parallax for reminding me of this important aspect about JJCO imports.
Doc AV	"NEW??Lithy SMLE"	#56	[-]
Posts: 2218 (11/21/08 04:12 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have just finished reading the Vol.1 of the History of SAF Lithgow. From my memory of this history, including when all the "Annexes" began production, it would seem from the assemblage of various OA,BA and MA Parts, that the rifle, although marked "1941" was possibly actually "set up" (fully assembled) in mid to late 1942; By observation of Serial letter vs year date on buttsocket, I have found (over several 100s of SMLEs,) that the years and serials don't always correlate properly, as there were batches of Bolt+bodies not assembled till up to a year or two later....so there is some "margin of error" here. The "C" series did not start till 1942;, so even a 1941 receiver (bolt assembled to body-barrel), assemblers number applied (under bolt handle) and then probably waited till mid 1942 to be fitted with relevant furnishings. I will look up the dates of commencement of the OA, BA etc annexes, so that a more definite dating can be achieved. The clean woodwork does give cause for concern. I have had several "NEW" rifles go through my hands here in Australia...they were Aus-sales examples from the 1980s clearance of Ordnance Warehouses of SMLEs at $50 each...Pick your own. All the rifles were either brand new, or FTR 1950s, and all had correct stock marks indication date of acceptance, III*, etc. The FTRs also had the date of re-entry to store, in a "mo/yr" format. Brand new "spare" stocks only have the Factory inspection mark, and "Slaz date" or "MA date"...Slaz made all the wartime Wood from 1941 till well into the Korean war. So, although the cited rifles is a nice example, without further research, I would hesitate to say it is "Factory fresh" or even "FTR Fresh" Regards, Doc AV AV Ballistics
shotandabeer		#57	[-]
Posts: 4 (11/24/08 03:28 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I too have one of these pristine 1942 "Lithgows". The numbers on mine are matching too. The serial number does begin with the letter C. However the stock does not have any stampings on it. The only marking that is on the stock is the letter D with a diagonal line going through it /. Does anybody know what this could possibly mean? From reading all of these posts I am assuming it is one of the JJCO's. I have not taken it apart yet, but I thinkmit is one of these. However I did have to chime in because of the C prefix serial number, and the D with the diagonal line going through it.
wsmrto		#58	[-]
Posts: 432 (11/24/08 06:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well, here we go again!! Shot & beer can you take some photos of it so it can be discussed. Also does it have JJCO //NYC stamped very small and lightly on the barrel in front of the rear sight? I for one (since I have one of these too) really would like to compare the both of them. Thanks for getting in on this. maybe there should be a full series of any info on these fine looking rifles. How many and when they were imported, how many were assembled prior to import and how many and what parts stock was used to assemble the "like new" Lithgow Enfields.
Ed Novak		#59	[-]
Posts: 1732 (11/24/08 11:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	wsmrto wrote: Well, here we go again!! Shot & beer can you take some photos of it so it can be discussed. Also does it have JJCO //NYC stamped very small and lightly on the barrel in front of the rear sight? I for one (since I have one of these too) really would like to compare the both of them. Thanks for getting in on this. maybe there should be a full series of any info on these fine looking rifles. How many and when they were imported, how many were assembled prior to import and how many and what parts stock was used to assemble the "like new" Lithgow Enfields. wsmrto: I had suggested, so many years ago when there was much debate and posting about JJCO stamped LEs that a separate forum be considered. The Santa Fe rifles also have a distinct following. Nothing came of that suggestion but then, the number of interested folks was and probably still is small, compared with the millions of LEs extant. I found/find the history of these rifles still interesting - to the point that I searched for the history of JJCO Gun Shop (5 Centre Market Street, NY, NY) and its original shop, across the street from a police precinct and with a large store sign with a revolver painted on it... and a further reference to a shooting range in NY state operated by JJCO. The company has an interesting history, as do the rifles. After engaging in this string, what would I do today if I came upon another very nice JJCO LE import? I'd keep it. "They ain't putting them together anymore". LECS member #2.
shotandabeer		#60	[-]
Posts: 5 (11/25/08 01:47 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Alrighty gang, I'll do my best to get some picture's up. First I have to get my hand's on a digital camera, figure how to post pic's here, and closely inspect the rifle for the JJCO mark's. Be patient with me this sound's like it's going to require overtime. wsmrto ok to send you an e mail when I do?

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