An Odd One-- Please Help!

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LibertarianBob	An Odd One-- Please Help!	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1 (11/22/08 03:18 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : help, identify, 1911, sporterize I picked up this sporterized Schmidt-Rubin from a pawn shop for $50. (Photos below.)It's in remarkably good condition, with almost no dings on the stock. All signs point to this being a Model 1911, and the serial number of 353256 seems to put its manufacture date at 1914. The trigger guard is consistent with a 1911 according to the diagrams I have seen online. The serial nubmers are matching on the barrel, receiver, and even imprinted on the inside of the stock. Here is where it gets weird for me-- I have seen no photos of any 1911with a smooth stock (no pistol grip). The smooth-stock Shmidt Rubins I have seen were all pre-1911 models... but the serial number inside the stock matched the rest of the rifle, which I believe to be a 1911. There are photos online of the Swiss Rifle Museum, and the non-sportorized version of this rifle is in one the photos, but there is sadly no description of which model it was-- it was sandwhiched between the 1911 and the K31. I have read through dozens and dozens of posts on this board and have concluded that if anyone can solve this mystery, it is you guys. I would appreciate any insight you might have for me. It appears that all Bubba did to this rifle was to remove some wood from the barrel and change out the sight. I was blown away by the accuracy of the rifle when I ran through a box of Norman 7.5x55 rounds (couldn't wait for the cheap stuff to get here from the Internet, so I coughed up $41 for 20 rounds at a local gun shop that actually had them in stock). I intend to use this rifle for open-site deer hunting right away. Thanks in advance for your help. Michael (LibertarianBob)
NuJudge		#1	[-]
Posts: 241 (11/22/08 07:39 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The magazine tells me it is one of the pre-1911 rifles. Some of those were safe with GP-11 ammo, most were not. I shoot 1911 and K31 rifles a lot, but know little about the earlier versions. There is lots of info on the earlier versions on the SwissRifles website: http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/ http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/faq/ http://www.swissrifles.com/links.htm http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/ CDD
LibertarianBob	Still Confused	#2	[-]
Posts: 2 (11/22/08 05:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for the input... but I can't place my magazine on a pre-1911 rifle. I compared my magazine as well as the trigger guard area with photos on the websites you listed... and I still come up with 1911, except for the stock which seems out of place. The GP-11 ammo seems to fire effortlessly and fiercely accurate, but I don't want to keep firing it if it's unsafe. I have a K31 as well, and have spent a good amount of time trying to solve this dilema. Anyone else have an ideas? I might like to restore this weapon to its original state, but I need a starting point. Thanks so much.
OldIronMan		#3	[-]
Posts: 1252 (11/22/08 08:06 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	No mystery. It's just a Gewehr 11 with the foreend shortened and the pistol grip carved off. Somebody wanted a straight stock. "A cheerful heart is good medicine."
LibertarianBob		#4	[-]
Posts: 3 (11/23/08 11:33 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I agree that it has to be a Gewehr 11. I also ran down some markings on the barrel that are consistent with only 1911 type rifles. If someone cut down the stock, it is the most impressive workmanship I've ever seen. There is just no visual evidence of alteration. Has anyone ever heard of a batch of 1911s that were made with a smooth stock? I think OldIronMan's theory is the most plausible, but dang this stock looks nice.
brass rat		#5	[-]
Posts: 1958 (11/23/08 08:17 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Who ever did it did a nice job. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Why not join us at Milsurp After Hours handloading forum
LibertarianBob	Yep	#6	[-]
Posts: 4 (11/24/08 02:28 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I truly can't see any evidence that it was done, or that the stock was ever refinished at all... it still counfounds me a little, but this is the only reasonable explanation there can be. I'll be in a deer stand with this rifle later this afternoon.
FRANKCVA42.theswissriflesd...		#7	[-]
Posts: 4 (11/29/08 01:47 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Looks like the pistol grip was removed to provide a better handling rifle. Another tip off is the installation of a commercial rear peep sight. And the barrel looks shorter also. So looks like you gat a sporterized rifle with aftermarket rear sights. From the looks of it, the work looks pretty good. Frank
argie1891	a twin to your rifle	#8	[-]
Posts: 6 (12/15/08 10:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	i was given a rifle like this 25 years ago. it was re-chambered to 308 cartridge. the story i heard is that a company named golden state arms imported them in the early 1960`s an because ammo was hard to come by cut off the blr and re-chambered to 308 winchester. Mine is marked 308 on the left side but it is marked very faintly. i did shoot it once with milatary 308 ammo and then used it only for cast bullet shooting. it too has a willaims peep sight on it. actually it shoots well. i would not shoot it with full power 308 ammo as i really dont think it is strong enough to take a steady diet of 55,000 psi ammo. Anyway check it out and make sure what caliber it is before firing. Joe Gifford aka argie1891
Hawkster318		#9	[-]
Posts: 316 (12/25/08 08:10 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It will handle commercial .308 WIN fine. I've got a few sporters rechambered like this. No worries. At least one other company besides Santa Fe sporterized these inexpensive imports in the sixties. This account for (2) distinct bolt patterns for D&T mounts on the LH side of the receiver. The Swiss Products 199 D&T Mount shown here has (5) Five Hole and will fit either pattern. Alan in Wisconsin Curio and Relics Firearms Forum Swiss Rifles Honda Express and ExpressII Forum Zeughaus Hawkster
Colin		#10	[-]
Posts: 1816 (12/27/08 01:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Not only will they handle 308, but they are 'way accurate. The acuracy of mine improved greatly after I slugged the bore and found it measured .311" instead of .308". I use .311" hunting bullets in it and have run it over the National Match Course a couple of times. I sure wouldn't use .311" bullets, unless I slugged the bore first and found it was .311, as they are supposed to be .308". Sont wory about the higher pressure of the 308 Winchester round: check out the throat, mine has about 1 1/2 inch of freebore, which really keeps the pressure down.
argie1891		#11	[-]
Posts: 9 (12/28/08 07:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	that is the first time i have seen any real information on the swiss converted to 308, i have seen several at gun shows and shot mine a lot. I used the swiss as my first dedicated cast bullet rifle. i shot hunderds of rounds of rcbs 180 gr. with 25 gr. of RL7 powder. it gives good groups and i can ring the gong at 300 yards most of the time off hand with this rifle. thanks for the infromation. the rifle was given to me by an old friend who got me into shooting and casting bullets he is long dead but if you want to be remembered by someone give them a firearm. they will remember you every time they look at it. joe gifford aka argie1891
argie1891		#12	[-]
Posts: 10 (12/28/08 07:47 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	another note anyone know what side mount fits this rifle mine didnt come with one but is drilled and tapped for one. joe gifford
Hawkster318		#13	[-]
Posts: 317 (01/01/09 04:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	argie1891 wrote: another note anyone know what side mount fits this rifle mine didnt come with one but is drilled and tapped for one. joe gifford Joe, A lot of these were D&T'ed for a cheap bent metal scope mount and scope. My understanding is that this is the same set-up used by LHO on the Carcano (not getting into theories here, just stating), and as such is a high $$$ item and hard to find. People who wish to re-create a copy of that rifle have driven up prices. I haven't seen another offred for years. I have another that has been cut-down to 3 holes. An old Weaver can look similar and a matching mount might be adapted, but the SP Mount is nice for more current optic options. I'll see if I can find somoe of the older posts at the CARFF board and send you a link. I cannot recall what was lost in the Ezboard crash and what wasn't. HTH. Alan in Wisconsin Curio and Relics Firearms Forum Swiss Rifles Honda Express and ExpressII Forum Zeughaus Hawkster
argie1891	swiss mount	#14	[-]
Posts: 11 (01/02/09 02:10 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	thanks for the information i might have to try my hand at milling a mount. never tried it before but i bet it could be done. joe gifford aka argie1891