gulf war syndrome -drepression

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dou 44	gulf war syndrome -drepression	Lead	[-]
Posts: 2350 (01/18/09 04:57 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None just courious if some one has one or the other and they see a doctor and the doctor comfirms it what will happen to their gun rights.i thought i read somewhere that you lose them.but my memory is not as good as it was i have friend i worry about sometimes because of mood swings
ParrisIsland79		#1	[-]
Posts: 127 (01/18/09 09:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I don't think it's an issue unless the courts have been involved and charges have been brought to court and adjudicated as in someone being prosecuted or hospitalised by a court order. The gun buying forms I've seen have the check-a-box list dealing with mental instability, but I don't think PTSD and/or depression is a disqualifier.
eagle7		#2	[-]
Posts: 3757 (01/19/09 01:52 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would be extremely hesitant to "red flag" myself by having the VA label me as a PTSD patient. The more leftist elements in the AMA and APA (the national organization for psychiatrists) have already suggested that veterans with PTSD are a "health risk" if they have access to firearms. As the federal law now stands, you must be committed by a court order to be disqualified. That doesn't guarantee that the law won't be changed, or that the individual states may pass legislation to restrict gun ownership based on a psychiatric evaluation. Last Edited By: eagle7 01/19/09 02:04 PM. Edited 1 times.
dou 44		#3	[-]
Posts: 2355 (01/20/09 07:53 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	my friend would like to see if he could be given something for his mood swings but is afraid to go to the va and does not want to lose his gun rights.he is a great guy but he seems to get depressed for a few days then snaps back to his old self.
ParrisIsland79		#4	[-]
Posts: 134 (01/25/09 06:35 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I don't know how expensive it would be, but he might consider outside help and go to a non-govt connected civilian doctor. His depression may be compiled by a variety of things and not one single source or cause. The problem I've found with my own issues (not Gulf War related) is that there are so many variables and potential causes it's not a quick diagnoses in many cases to get the right treatment and or meds. I've had to look myself in the mirror real hard to answer some things that a doc might never be able to tap in to right away. I also learned when I tried to self medicate, I usually just exasperated the depression issue. Depression sucks, and can even magnify physical aches and pains to the point one might think something else is wrong with them. I wish your friend all the best and hope he finds some good help and some peace. Last Edited By: ParrisIsland79 01/25/09 06:43 PM. Edited 1 times.
196 LIB		#5	[-]
Posts: 825 (02/15/09 10:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would encourage any Veteran suffering from such symptoms to use the VA. If it is PTSD, there are many things they can do to help.
dou 44		#6	[-]
Posts: 2384 (02/16/09 08:26 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	i talked to him and he will not goto the va now because he is afraid thst somehow he will lose his ccw and c&r.i think he is going to see a doctor though
196 LIB		#7	[-]
Posts: 826 (02/16/09 09:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have been treated by the VA for over 8 years now for PTSD and depression and have had an 01 FFL and CCW the whole time. Never had a problem.
eagle7		#8	[-]
Posts: 3798 (02/17/09 02:49 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have mixed feelings about the VA's PTSD treatment. From personal experience and the experience of friends, I think the only "fix" the psychiatric community has for PTSD is medication. This is true for all modern psychological treatment since Freudian psychiatry fell out of favor in the 1970s, which coincides the rise of pharmaseutical treatment. It is a lot easier to treat patients diagnosed as PTSD with Pacil, Zoloft, and the other mood altering drugs. That's the partially the result of a very cosy relationship between the medical community and the drug industry. Nobody has a crystal ball to read the future, but it's a very good bet that we will see some sort of nationalized health care become law in the next four years. As a matter of fact there is some government health care legislation buried in the 1,373 page economic stimulus bill the president will sign today. It has to do will the government computerizing medical records for easier access. If the government gets into the health care business, you can bet there will be punitive provisions against citizens that are obese, smoke tobacco, drink alcohol, carry a genetic predisposition for certain diseases, and engage in activities that are deemed "risky behavior".......like having a firearm in the home. That's the official stance of the AMA. If the ownership of a firearm can be construed as a health risk, imagine the case a meddlesome government could make that persons with documented anger, depression, and anxiety issues are too emotionally unstable to be gun owners. We're all adults and have the obligation to do what is in our best interests after examining all the facts and weighing our options. If a person feels his best move is to medically medicate himself to alleviate feelings of anger, panic, anxiety depression, etc, I say more power to him. I would caution him though......is he and his doctor treating the cause of the disability, or just treating the symptoms????
196 LIB		#9	[-]
Posts: 827 (02/17/09 04:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The VA primarily treats PTSD with meds because (my opinion) there is no other viable treatment for many.The fact is when it comes to the brain, science has a long way to go.The symptoms you mention can be a chemical imbalance in the brain or among others, the result of traumatic life experiences.It's also important to note that what has or hasn't worked for one person,or a few friends does not constitute an empirical study. In my case counseling with other Vets didn't help much and my experience was shared my many. However the meds have been a lifesaver.Don't envision a guy sitting around zoned out on a plethora of pills.One med has enabled me to have a great quality of life.Under medication i have obtained a bachelor's degree and soon ,a Masters degree with honors. Not being one that takes unnecessary meds, i tried to stop a couple times,but the result was not good.Science simply does not have all the answers now, its not because prescribing pills is "easier",its because "treating the cause" is not always possible.Can you treat the "cause" of PTSD? Nope, that incident has already happened.But you can threat the symptoms, which can be a lifesaver.It's odd that so many consider medication for the brain as being different than any other body part. FWIW Pain meds are nearly impossible to get from the VA(unlike the 80s).Now, if you even ask for one,despite what injury or condition you have, you are automatically sent to a Psychiatrist. PAs have to get approval from above to write a rx. For those times i suffer with severe leg pain, i must go outside the VA system for painkillers. I would say to the poster who initiated this thread...If you are worrying about how getting those meds will affect a CCW or FFL,dont get the meds,because if you are more worried about those things, you don't need meds yet.
dou 44		#10	[-]
Posts: 2388 (02/18/09 06:49 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	he finaly went to see a doctor and was told he needed meds because he is bi-polar .will see how everything goes with it.
Budop		#11	[-]
Posts: 273 (02/21/09 12:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Eagle has it right. One is raising a flag and there have been motions to classify PTSD guys as needing to be disarmed for the greater good. Has not happened yet, but It is a consideration. Like anything it involves choice and consquence. It is reasonable to expect a flag going up if you tell anyone you have mental "issues" no matter how they are currently classified. Like many I believe our personal freedoms are more at risk than ever before and that we will be taking some lumps. Hope all goes well for your buddy.
ParrisIsland79		#12	[-]
Posts: 163 (02/21/09 04:12 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	dou 44 wrote: he finaly went to see a doctor and was told he needed meds because he is bi-polar .will see how everything goes with it. These guys have all offered some great food for thought. Another battle I found was confusion within myself about what they were telling me was wrong with me, so patience on my part was a wrestling match. I saw a great MD General Practitioner first, who was wise enough to refer me to a specialist. The first "screener" I sat with there said I was "classic bi-polar". Then I walked from there to the Psychologist (the sit and talk with guy) and Psychiatrist (the meds guy). After we talked, neither thought I was bi-polar, but a low dose mix of bi-polar meds were tried to get me on the right track. My Psychologist gave me some great stuff to work on as well to help guide me in a different way of reacting to my world. It also took me communicating with my doc about my reactions to the meds, and he eventually lowered them. Initially, I was wiped out, could barely drag myself out of bed or function, but after going weeks into months with barely no sleep, they had to practically knock me out so my body and brain could get some rest. My Psychologist recommended a certain book, and said, "there's about ten years of work for you there." He listened to me, and tailored his treatment based on my faulty wiring at the time. The meds helped tremendously, and I worked on the other issues armed with some new mental tools. It worked, and continues to work as long as I do my part. But it also took relocating to another place to live, because of associated issues. I moved on my own, they didn't suggest it, but I had to remove myself from the chaos for my own survival. That part was plain as day. I realise unfortunately, not everyone can do that. I was seen at a Naval Hospital, and am greatful.
stantheman1986	Mental issues with veterans	#13	[-]
Posts: 5418 (06/19/09 11:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have more mental stress from being back here in garrison than I ever had in Iraq. And no doubt I have some kind of mental trauma from being overseas, not anywhere near the guys who saw action in Vietnam, Korea, WWII and elsewhere in "real" wars , I have the greatest respect for those guys and can't imagine how hard it must have been for them. But I still had the daily missions for a year, the constant thought that anything could happen today and some wierd occurence could cause my death, I have seen people die and seen dead bodies, had someone try to kill me with a grenade, been hit by IED's,been shot at, in addition to other events and even though I may not even realize it I'm sure it has affected me in some way.I'm facing the fact of having to go back over in January, and thankfully they put an end to stop-loss so I can leave when my ETS date comes up in Aug. 2010, I am not re-enlisting. I don't have PTSD nor do I claim it, but I know some guys who have been over there numerous times who definitely have some kind of problems mentally but work through it. And no offense intended to anyone, but it annoys me to no end when people who never left the FOB or worked in a supply room for a deployment claim PTSD and others who have real problems suffer in silence and just work through it on their own without trying to "claim" anything. Hell, there are guys here who haven't even deployed yet who are going to Mental Health for "problems" and they haven't had to even deal with anything yet! I'm a 29 year old man, I joined the Army when I was 26, got back from Iraq this past October and was doing fine. I got my E-5 this past April, and now I'm more mentally stressed than ever. I'm single, so I get less time off because they don't give the married guys weekend duties like CQ (which I'm on right now!) I don't get a decent place to live, I get crammed in a 6x10 room (cell) with another E-5 and there's no room for any of our stuff but we have near daily room inspections and get harassed for our room being dirty. Ft. Drum doesn't give E-5's BAH and I can't afford to rent an apartment, so after work not only do I not have somewhere halfway nice to go "home" to but I have to live with all the loud annoying 19 year old privates while the married guys get either a free on base house or get plenty of BAH so they can actually live like a human being in an apartment well away from work and not get harassed. Tomorrow I'm going to drive 4-5 hours on very little sleep just to spend a day and a half with my parents, because we have a 4-day weekend and I get stuck on 24 hour duty on a Friday.And then drive back Monday to return to work on Tuesday morning. And they say the Army is "all about the families" BS, the Army doesn't care one bit about you or your family, and if you have a legit physical injury or a mental issue than you're a s___bag, you all who've been in know what I mean. There are guys who tough out serious injuries and guys that run to sick call and get a profile for 2 weeks because they have a sore shoulder. In short, I'm just tired of it. I get to bust my ass in the field while several people ride profiles and do nothing all day for so-called "injuries" and all these guys with "PTSD" mope around all doped up on meds and don't do crap all day. Some people have real mental problems and don't say anything for fear of seeming "weak" and thus the able minded and able bodied get tasks and work piled up on them while some people skate by doing very little. If they think all this isn't wearing on me, they're dead wrong!
Jackbull49		#14	[-]
Posts: 224 (06/20/09 06:41 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	As a retired 1SG let me say to you, yes indeed you do have a lot of stress, anybody in any MOS who is looking at deployments every 22 month for the near future is stressed. As far as your living conditions go, here is an idea. If there is a college near you at Ft Drum run an add to students here on a student visa asking for a marriage of convience. If they agree, write up a pre-nup, that will grant them citizenship and get you out of the barracks, you can split some of the additional pay if you choose but citizenship should be enough. You get out of the barracks and life is good . Of course that is a stupid way to permanently mess up your life over a temporary situation. If you are living in a barracks with other E-5s, why are you having stress from a bunch of PVTs, you guys are NCOs and as such you should be keeping order in the billets so that everybody gets sufficient rest. Maybe you could go the 1SG or CSM and get NCO bays set aside if you guys can't keep the PVTs in line. Additional duties are a pain in the ass, but remember your Senior NCOs are pulling Staff Duty NCO at Battalion and above levels. In 26 years I pulled every duty concievable including Guard Duty Christmas Eve at the Ammo dump in Bosnia. I was a 1SG and the Commander and I and the Platoon Leaders and PSGs pulled the duty for our younger soldiers so they could all get a chance to call home. The longer you stay in the Army the more of that you will see. More than anything else you need to sit down with someone in you chain and get this stuff off your chest, you are not feeling anything that everybody else has not felt, the more you talk with others about what you are feeling the more you will come to understand that you are not alone, and sometimes just knowing that everybody else feels the same goes a long way to making it tolerable, notice I did not say OK I said tolerable, your stressers are real and cannot be avoided, but you can learn to cope. If you think you are at a breaking point, take yourself by the collar and march yourself down to the Chaplain and get started at getting help. They are a ruck sacks full of information and once you get over the initial interview, you will notice they are more than happy to direct you elsewhere where you specific problems can be addressed. Bottom line up front, don't carry this in your gut, it will grow like a cancer, the first time you ask for a friendly ear is the day you start to make things more tolerable. The Army and the nation need you at your best and you owe it to yourself and the folks you are close to to get the anger and disappointment out of your mind before it makes you someone you are not. As a fellow NCO I want to hear from you that you took the first step before the first payday in July., talk to a Platoon Sergeant, the First Shirt, a Chaplain, a civilian counselor on post, or even another NCO you respect, but do it. The doing it is more important than who you do it with. I guess you are 10th Mountain, they have a long and storied history, you have earned those stripes, show you are strong, by asking for a little help, see how much it helps. Do it !
eagle7		#15	[-]
Posts: 3956 (06/20/09 06:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Stantheman, it's taken you three years to reach the same point of being burned out that I reached after 12 years. It really makes me sad that the Army still doesn't know how to treat soldiers. I feel your resentment over married guys not being on the duty roster on the weekends. I was a single NCO living in the barracks for the first 10 years of my career. Married NCOs getting a pass on weekend duty is a load of crap. There are Army regulations that govern duty rosters. There is supposed to be a DA Form 6 CORRECTLY filled out that determines impartially who has duty on any given day. If you have the high number on Saturday, you pull duty on Saturday regardless of how many wives or kids you have. When I was a 1SG I posted copies of all the CQ, SDNCO, Guard, and RSDNCO DA Form 6s in the dayroom so EVERYONE knew I was on the up and up, and nobody was getting preferential treatment. As a matter of fact once I had to correct the duty roster because one of my NCOs caught a mistake. When I taught NCOPD classes to my NCOs, one of the classes was how to fill out a DA Form 6. BTW, it is a big time IG beef to crank out a duty roster without correctly using a DA Form 6. Your 1SG is either ignorant of the basic regs, lazy, or corrupt. I think the new guys that are going to Mental Health (is that what they call it now?) are laying the groundwork to avoid deployment......and I bet there will be a few last minute "nervous breakdowns" right up to the day you guys ship out. I observed the same crap in 1990 and 2003. Right now PTSD is probably a "hot button issue" in the Army since that maniac E-5 shot those two soldiers at the clinic in Iraq. There will always be people who will exploit a "get out of jail free card" like that, but they are nothing more than thieves for every paycheck they get. ....And there will always be soldiers that will gut it out although they have bonafide problems. You will still be a young man when you ETS, and nobody can take away the fact that you served honorably and always tried to do the right thing. I always felt that the Infantry didn't know how to take care of people. They use them up and discard them, while selected useless drones will slip through the cracks and re-enlist again and again....
Jackbull49		#16	[-]
Posts: 225 (06/21/09 02:46 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The bad thing with the Army is they do not teach the Duty Roster, DA Form 6 until ANCOC(probably called something else by now) and most E-5s have PLDC if they are lucky, Duty Rosters are supposed to be posted, but any good Latrine Barrister will post the immediate roster on the Company board and keep the actual DA Form 6 in a folder on his desk, (by now they probably permit electronic forms on disk). Bad practice which leads to monkeyshines. The worst part is it doesn't allow E-5s and below to see the duty pulled by E-6s and E-7s. Army life is not for everyone, but then again, what is? If Stantheman1986 just finishes his enlistment (probably with 2 infantry tours under his belt) he will know the rest of his life, he was there and did his duty when millions of others turned their backs. He will also be ready for whatever life throws at him. I wish him luck.
eagle7		#17	[-]
Posts: 3959 (06/21/09 04:37 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jackbull, IIRC there was a computer program to electronically do the DA 6 but I didn't trust it. I always preferred to get the old #2 pencil out and update the matrix myself. I always kept the original in my locked office. Once one of my NCOs did a little "skillcraft magic" on the posted copy but that scheme didn't work out for him. When I went to ANCOC in 1993 they didn't teach the DA 6; I guess they didn't think an E-7 needed to know how to do a duty roster. Many of the young soldiers I served with are now NCOs, and I run into them from time to time at Ft Knox. I get the impression that there are many NCOs that are where Stantheman is today emotionally and psychologically. Many of the guys that got caught up in the futile and failed tactics in Iraq back in '04 -06 are burnt out. I also sense from them that a lot of junior enlisted soldier misconduct is tolerated by the higher leadership in order to boost troop retention numbers. The Army seems to experience cyclic ups and downs in quality, and perhaps it is now going through a rough transitional period.
stantheman1986		#18	[-]
Posts: 5442 (07/15/09 10:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yeah, it's pretty bad. I had to "keep the ball rolling" to get a guy charged with larceny, identity theft, forgery and some other stuff and after 3 months he's finally being started on chapter paperwork, and likely all he'll get is a general discharge although the CO is pushing for a Bad Conduct. He somehow obtained another soldier's (also in my squad) credit card number and used it to buy a bunch of stuff online. Mental burnout is increasingly common, I think my squad leader has it worse than I do.....he's done two tours, re-enlisted to do a 3 year recruiter tour but failed out of recruiting school and so is "trapped" for 3 more years of whatever they decide to do with him. He's burnt out, he does his job but I think has just mentally given up. He says stuff like "I can't even pretend to give a ___ anymore" which is what I've been starting to think but I'm not at that point. I still do care about alot of these new guys, they deserve a competent leader who actually cares and I genuinely do care, but a lot of the stupidity in general just leaves me feeling like I'm going throughout my day as a cyborg or drone rather than a person....like being forced to ferry people around all day in my own car and watching my gas needle drop, and money come out of my pocket. I must lose $200 or more a month playing neighborhood taxi. I feel more like a prisoner counting down days than a soldier. 1 year, 1 month and 7 days is what I have left, 5 more months at Drum, and 6 more in Iraq, and I'll leave there in June to start clearing for my August 22 ETS, now that stop loss is over and they send you back 60 days prior if you ETS during a tour. I signed the paper 3 weeks ago denying the "extension" and measly insulting $500 a month "extension incentive" they give you for every month you spend overseas after your ETS date........I don't care much about money, but a couple grand extra is not worth 6 more months of my life, or spending more time overseas and risking injury or death. There's a new "idea" in the Army, you may have seen it in this month's Army times where no one works past 1700 and one day a week is "half day", they are already doing it at many installations. Fat chance of that here in my company, I see other people already walking around in civilian clothes from other companies in my unit while we are still at work, and today we worked until 1900 with some guys being pulled for a later detail. The army is struggling to maintain morale and try to make joining the army more attractive but the infantry is an animal of a different color as far as the rest of the army, there is just no way for this new "morale raising idea" can happen with the way we work.
eagle7		#19	[-]
Posts: 3996 (07/16/09 12:47 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think your squad leader is lucky that he didn't make it through Recruiter School. I know about a dozen NCOs that were branch detailed to Recruiter Duty, and they did NOT paint a favorable picture of what it was like. In their experience a recruiting station is a cross between a sweatshop and Stalinist Russia. If you achieve your monthly quota of enlistments (called "making mission") your bosses leave you alone; if you don't they make your life hell. Think of the movie Glengarry Green, but the salesmen are wearing Class B uniforms. I concur that Army life is sometimes like a prison sentence. As a single NCO I was assigned to a unit in Germany for three long years. I spent three years as a SSG in my thirties living in the barracks, eating in the chowhall, and either walking or riding the S-bann to get around. Three years on Panzer Kaserne... we used to joke that unmarried NCOs stuck there were "locked down at Panzer Prison for three years". Early in my career I got some wise advice from an NCO when I asked him why he put up with the crapola. He was a smart guy that could have easily been a success in the civilian world. Sgt Dalton said (that was his name) "As long as I can make a difference and have a positive impact on my soldiers' lives, I'll stay in the Army. The day I'm just marking time to get a paycheck, I'm gone". That became my motto when I pinned on my Sgt stripes and I maintained that philosophy regardless of how cynical I became. Hmmm... actually caring about your people, what a novel idea. Giving troops a half day off every week is not a new idea. I have seen it called "family time" or whatever, and it was usually granted at 1445 on Thursdays if you were in garrison. It was not always observed, which depended on the opinion of whom the regimental/brigade commander and/or post commander was. I also served in Germany under a troop commander that hated the "family time" concept, and retaliated by conducting physical training on Thursdays from 1300 to 1430....usually capped by a 4 to 6 mile run. When I served in the 2d ACR at Ft Polk it was routinely ignored until our higher leadership in the 18th Abn Corps found out that family time was being blown off by regiment. The result was that the 2d ACR went from one extreme to another. Woe to the 1SG who still had personnel hanging around the troop area at 1450 when the Regt. CSM came around checking....
7GREEN		#20	[-]
Posts: 638 (07/16/09 05:33 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The marrieds didn't get a pass on weekend duty when I was on AD 1966-1972 and again 1977-1981. The only people exempt from weekend duty-or duty in general-were the company clerks, the mechanics, the cooks, in HHC the medics-they had their own duty roster, some of the people in the commo section-again, had their own duty roster. The 1SG made up the duty roster, you pulled it, that was that, about the only way you got out of was by being VERY sick. Or you paid someone to take your place. You didn't show, you took the consequences. My 2nd tour I recall one dud-a "Family Problems Guy"-who called off for the weeknds once too often, he whined he didn't get his E-4 when he should have. And what happened to all the EEOC-"Equality", "One Army" nonsense? I recall a conversation I had with a retired LTG in the 1990s, he said the prefered recruit is still the young single male who lives on post under the close supervision of his superiors, does not have the distractions caused by dependents, and who, when the need arises, can quickly be moved to where he is needed. One E-7 I knew in the 1990s (he left as an E-6 due to a bitter divorce that made him a single father) said of so many AD personnel "For a lot of them, it's just a job."

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