Finn vs Russian sling swivels/hangars on the M91

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Ken Shabby	Finn vs Russian sling swivels/hangars on the M91	Lead	[-]
Posts: 421 (02/25/09 12:42 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I made a thread earlier about a nice Finnish marked 1896 M91 I found a gun show. Here she is again: I have a question for the Finn experts: The standard Russian arrangement for M91s had a swivel on the front barrel band, and a second one on the front of the magazine housing. The Finns put the hangars in slots on the stock in the same location as the 91/30's slots. My rifle has a Finn stock, so it follows the second arrangement as expected. My question is, what happened to the magazine housing swivel? My rifle shows no evidence of ever having had one - in fact it looks just like a 91/30's housing. But it must have had one at some point...The housing itself is stamped with the pre-1928 Tula stamp, though the follower has the later star stamp, so I don't think the housing is from 91/30-era production. Lapin's book states that the magazine housing swivels may have been done away with in 1909, so I guess this rifle simply underwent arsenal refurbishment at some point after 1909 and had its original magazine housing replaced? Second question: How common are the magazine housing swivels on M91s, and do we see rifles where the swivels have been moved but the old magazine housing retained? Thanks...maybe I have too much time on my hands if I'm coming up with these weird questions. Last Edited By: Ken Shabby 02/25/09 12:45 PM. Edited 1 time.
millman711		#1	[-]
Posts: 32 (02/25/09 08:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'd say that mazine never had one. It was made after the attachment points were done away with, but before 1928. I see Finn rifles with the attachment point from time to time, so I don't think the Finns bothered to remove them. That is a very nice rifle BTW. Millman
Ken Shabby		#2	[-]
Posts: 426 (02/25/09 10:04 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks! It's the pride of my Mosin collection. I'm pretty much of your opinion on the magazine housing. I'm pretty new to Finn rifles, so many of these little details escape me. Last Edited By: Ken Shabby 02/25/09 10:41 PM. Edited 1 times.
zeebill		#3	[-]
Posts: 3490 (02/26/09 06:20 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Russian M91 went through many stages or models with sling swivels attached in a couple of different places. If you go to Ted's site he follows this through and you may read about it. The Finns used what was available and indeed I have one M91/24 with a sling swivel on the mag and also one step barrel 20's Tikka that also uses this method for the sling swivel. Variations were the rule so to speak with the Finns. Bill
Ken Shabby		#4	[-]
Posts: 427 (02/26/09 02:04 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Interesting stuff - I imagine that the Finn armorers took a very pragmatic approach, and with a rifle of this age I can only imagine the colorful history it has. I'm proud to be its current custodian.
m1 talker		#5	[-]
Posts: 6567 (02/26/09 02:15 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Since the Finns did not build any complete rifles or the receivers of the rifles, they simply had to make do with what they had. And in the Winter War, many rifles were captured from the Russians and who knows what variants can be attributed to the Russians even before the Finns got their hands on a particular rifle. I have looked at literally hundreds of Mosin-Nagant rifles over the years of all nationalities and such and I don't think I can recall ever seeing any two being identical. Some may be close, but close inspection of the stamps and dates of manufacturer, manufacturer identity and such, I can assure you that you will find differences. Curt
eagle7		#6	[-]
Posts: 3802 (02/26/09 02:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have a Tula M91 that was made in 1895 and was rehashed by the Finns with a 1940 Tikka barrel.. The magazine housing doesn't have the swivel. In reality these rifles have been refurbed at least two or three times, and the original magazine assemblies probably ended up in a Finn armorer's spare part box. Oh, BTW that's a nice old M91.
Ken Shabby		#7	[-]
Posts: 428 (02/26/09 04:50 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks! That's another thing I was wondering about - is it more common to find a Finn M91 with a Finnish-made barrel or an original Russian barrel?
Outfielder		#8	[-]
Posts: 115 (02/26/09 06:51 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ken... Certainly a nice M91 you have there. I recently picked up a M91 Tula 1914 with a Finn stock and it still has the Russian barrel. Took it to the range today and it still shoots quite well.