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FAL newbie - parts kit questions

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Ken Shabby	FAL newbie - parts kit questions	Lead	[-]
Posts: 464 (04/19/09 02:57 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I wanted to post this on the FAL Files forum, but they haven't registered me yet, so I figured I throw this out to the Parallax folks in the meantime... I've decided to start accumulating parts for my first FAL, and have been reading and researching. I've already ruled out a Century rifle, and other completed guns (i.e. from DSA) are a little out of my price range for an all-at-once purchase. My goal is to put together a FAL that is as close to original military condition as is legally possible, based on whichever parts set I end up going with. I'm planning on getting a DSA upper receiver since those seem to be the best that are easily available, though not the cheapest (but whats a hundred bucks here or there in a thousand dollar project?) I have a couple questions on parts sets I have not been able to answer yet: - What is a "Brazilian G1" parts set? I was under the impression that the G1 was a West German contract FAL. - Condition is a major factor. Any opinions as to which are the best FAL parts sets out there in terms of condition? I don't want to have to do any major repairs for my first build....thanks in advance for any pointers! Last Edited By: Ken Shabby 04/19/09 11:02 PM. Edited 1 time.
ParallaxBill		#1	[-]
Posts: 16214 (04/19/09 08:39 PM) Owner/operator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hard to beat an Imbel (Brazilian) kit IMHO. But there are a few Australians still available although at higher cost. Parallax *Lee Enfield Collector's Society member #3* *Mauser Shooter's Association member #17* Forum administrator for the Carolina C&R Shooting & Collecting Club,
ThePitbullofLove		#2	[-]
Posts: 6525 (04/20/09 12:04 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ken Shabby wrote: I wanted to post this on the FAL Files forum, but they haven't registered me yet, so I figured I throw this out to the Parallax folks in the meantime... I've decided to start accumulating parts for my first FAL, and have been reading and researching. I've already ruled out a Century rifle, and other completed guns (i.e. from DSA) are a little out of my price range for an all-at-once purchase. My goal is to put together a FAL that is as close to original military condition as is legally possible, based on whichever parts set I end up going with. I'm planning on getting a DSA upper receiver since those seem to be the best that are easily available, though not the cheapest (but whats a hundred bucks here or there in a thousand dollar project?) I have a couple questions on parts sets I have not been able to answer yet: - What is a "Brazilian G1" parts set? I was under the impression that the G1 was a West German contract FAL. - Condition is a major factor. Any opinions as to which are the best FAL parts sets out there in terms of condition? I don't want to have to do any major repairs for my first build....thanks in advance for any pointers! G1 FAL's are German. They were surplussed to Turkey when Germany went to the G3 rifle. Brazilian FAL's are commonly referred to as Imbels. Best? Arguably the Austrian STG-58's. They are considered the most accurate FAL due to their Steyr barrels, and they're often in excellent condition. Imbels are good kits, but condition varies widely. Most have a lot of finish wear, and bore condition can run from mint to poor. Always check the rating prior to purchase. South African/Rhodesian/Zimbabwean kits, like Imbels vary widely. Typically these will be a bit rougher than an Imbel, and bore condition tends to be a bit more worn/corroded. British/Australian L1A1 kits- Usually in decent shape, but finding a complete kit with barrel these days is hard to do. Israeli-Kits are very expensive compared to others. Bore condition can vary wildly, but often they have pitting. Canadian? You won't find these for sale... Cost? SA/ZA/RA kit=$300 Imbel Kit-$350- L1A1Kit-$275 less barrel Israeli-$700-$1000 depending on condition and variant Austrian STG-$600+ Hope that helps. Life is the crummiest book I ever read, there isn't a hook; Just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up...
zaxxons		#3	[-]
Posts: 94 (04/20/09 10:54 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	With out a doub't the Austrian STG is the best FAL that I own. I have about six from different countries. The Brit. L1A1 has some neat features but my Israeli HB should be the best shooting whenever I finishing building it. As for receivers, I only use Imbel for building. FAL's are an easy build and excellent shooting rifles.
Ken Shabby		#4	[-]
Posts: 465 (04/20/09 11:45 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for the info! I think this will be more fun and rewarding than a building an AR, since everyone and their dog has one of those, and I want something more original. I've heard that IMBEL made some of the best receivers, but apparently they are no longer available retail, so I'm going with a DSA unless I can find an IMBEL receiver somewhere at a decent price. A little of what I've found so far: Florida Gun Works is selling STG-58 parts sets for $799 (ouch!). That's a little too much for me. I was hoping to spend no more than about $500 on the parts kit. They are also selling an IMBEL kit for $539 (VG cond.) and a "Brazilian G1" kit (VG-EX cond. + mag) for $499. I don't know anything about that last one...? Sportsman's Guide has L1A1 kits with wood furniture (G cond.) for $299, but no barrel, and I'd like a barrel with my kit to preserve the original appearance of the piece. Entreprise arms (who also make receivers and sell complete rifles) is selling IMBEL kits in two grades for $329 and $429, respectively, but their online store doesn't seem to be working. Seems like an IMBEL kit is the way to go at the moment for the newbie. It also seems that these kits are really starting to dry up, and have more than doubled in price over the last several years. ...one more quick question: I've been reading about the legal issues, getting US-made parts etc., but do the muzzle devices on these kits need to be permanently attached, or is the original barrel legal as-is (assuming I have the proper US parts count elsewhere)? Last Edited By: Ken Shabby 04/21/09 12:27 AM. Edited 2 times.
ThePitbullofLove		#5	[-]
Posts: 6526 (04/21/09 12:34 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	1. Stay FAR AWAY from Florida Gunworks. Many, many, many complaints. 2. Imbel receivers are available on the secondary market. The Marketplace on FAL Files Forums is a good place to buy. Imbel receivers are $500 or these days. 3. FAL Files marketplace is also the best place to buy a kit. Typically, Imbel kits are around $300 or so. STG-58's are around $600 4. I don't think Entreprise has kits currently in stock. You can call and find out. 5. As to the muzzle device, depends on where you live. Some states have their own Assault Weapons Ban. It mirrors the '94 AWB, so yes, then a brake must be permanently attached or threads cut off. Most states do not require permanent attachment, as long as your US parts count is correct. FAL Files is the place to go and learn about all things FAL. Go there. Study. Absorb the knowledge. There's nothing that you can ask about FAL's that they cannot answer there. Life is the crummiest book I ever read, there isn't a hook; Just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up...
ParallaxBill		#6	[-]
Posts: 16215 (04/21/09 03:19 PM) Owner/operator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Brian, how is NC on the muzzle device rule? Parallax *Lee Enfield Collector's Society member #3* *Mauser Shooter's Association member #17* Forum administrator for the Carolina C&R Shooting & Collecting Club,
Ken Shabby		#7	[-]
Posts: 466 (04/21/09 09:32 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	OK, thanks for the warning on Florida Gun Works. I live in Ohio, which does not have any kind of statewide AWB in place as far as I'm aware, but I will double check as I build. I will look around in the marketplace at FAL files...I know a guy who offered to sell an STG-58 kit for an astronomical $900 and a Century FAL sporter (which he claimed "dneeded a little work" for $450, but I passed. I've heard enough complaints about the Century guns that I think I will go elsewhere for my first FAL. Last Edited By: Ken Shabby 04/21/09 09:35 PM. Edited 2 times.
ThePitbullofLove		#8	[-]
Posts: 6527 (04/21/09 11:12 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Bill, here in NC, as long as the rifle is 922r compliant, you can use whatever you like. I know a lot of folks go with a US made muzzle device as a compliance part, and a US made FH or brake (like Moses/Johnny's brakes, which are awesome btw) is an easy compliance part. Remember, typical US parts count on a FAL is 6 if you have a plain muzzle; 7 US parts with a threaded muzzle. (Actually 922r counts foreign parts; no more than 10...there are 17 parts if a muzzle device is used; 16 if the barrel is plain) Life is the crummiest book I ever read, there isn't a hook; Just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up...
ThePitbullofLove		#9	[-]
Posts: 6528 (04/21/09 11:18 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ken Shabby wrote: OK, thanks for the warning on Florida Gun Works. I live in Ohio, which does not have any kind of statewide AWB in place as far as I'm aware, but I will double check as I build. I will look around in the marketplace at FAL files...I know a guy who offered to sell an STG-58 kit for an astronomical $900 and a Century FAL sporter (which he claimed "dneeded a little work" for $450, but I passed. I've heard enough complaints about the Century guns that I think I will go elsewhere for my first FAL. $900 is way too much for an STG-58 kit. You could almost buy a completed gun for that...actually, you probably could.... $450 for any FAL, even a Century is a great price. Even if it needs "work", it's low enough to allow the purchase of new parts, or if the receiver is the issue (a unibrow Century or an out of spec Hesse), you could use the gun as a parts kit. Anyway, Century's latest batch of FAL's seem to be faring well. The receivers are DCI (Dan Coonan) and in spec. Century is sort of hit and miss, but most Century guns will perform with a little tweaking. Some are even nice out of the box. Early Century rifles were built on Imbel and Argentine FMAP receivers. Most Century troubles could be traced more to assembly sloppiness than actual mechanical deficiencies. If you can get it cheap, a Century isn't necessarily a bad buy. If you can inspect the Century and take pix, we can probably let you know what it's "made from" and give you an idea of any "issues" Life is the crummiest book I ever read, there isn't a hook; Just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up...
Ken Shabby		#10	[-]
Posts: 467 (04/22/09 12:27 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Great, thanks for the info! I actually was talking to the owner of the Century today; I'm still considering buying it as a parts kit at least...if I get a chance to see it in person I will get photos and post them. In the meantime I'm keeping my eyes open for kits. It looks like I'll probably spend at least $350-$400 on a kit with a barrel. How much of the Century FAL is original and how much is US-made? I was hoping to end up with a rifle that is as close to an original as possible.
ThePitbullofLove		#11	[-]
Posts: 6529 (04/22/09 02:47 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ken Shabby wrote: Great, thanks for the info! I actually was talking to the owner of the Century today; I'm still considering buying it as a parts kit at least...if I get a chance to see it in person I will get photos and post them. In the meantime I'm keeping my eyes open for kits. It looks like I'll probably spend at least $350-$400 on a kit with a barrel. How much of the Century FAL is original and how much is US-made? I was hoping to end up with a rifle that is as close to an original as possible. It depends. Century built FAL's in many different configurations. Quite a few of the "older" guns have the thumbhole stock. Most of these will NOT have enough US parts to change the furniture to pistol grip without adding US parts. Other guns have US made furniture. Typically, a later Century gun will have US made HTS, Receiver, buttstock, PG, or HG's. But again, it can all depend on what Century had in stock at the time. Life is the crummiest book I ever read, there isn't a hook; Just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up...
Ken Shabby		#12	[-]
Posts: 468 (04/24/09 05:06 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Interesting...I remember when the local Dunham's had Century FALs for around $500...seemed like not that long ago. Oh, and while I'm picking your brain: Are the more recently imported L1A1 kits without barrels considered "replacement" parts sets that cannot be built into rifles? The description seems to indicate that but is not really clear.
ThePitbullofLove		#13	[-]
Posts: 6535 (04/24/09 08:34 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ken Shabby wrote: Interesting...I remember when the local Dunham's had Century FALs for around $500...seemed like not that long ago. Oh, and while I'm picking your brain: Are the more recently imported L1A1 kits without barrels considered "replacement" parts sets that cannot be built into rifles? The description seems to indicate that but is not really clear. Py no attention to that "replacement" mumbo jumbo. That's a reference to a trade agreement US firearms & surplus importers signed to get parts kits to be allowed into the US. For the importer to build the kit into a rifle themselves is "illegal" according to the agreement. There is no such prohibition on subsequent owners of said kit from building to their heart's content. (as long as it is legal to do so in your locality and you remain 922r compiant). Life is the crummiest book I ever read, there isn't a hook; Just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up...
Ken Shabby		#14	[-]
Posts: 471 (04/25/09 01:36 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	OK, that makes sense and clears it up for me... I'm going to look at an IMBEL kit the day after tomorrow, and if I buy it I'll post a pic.
Ken Shabby		#15	[-]
Posts: 472 (04/27/09 12:42 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well, I got an IMBEL kit today. I was able to pick it up for about what Pitbull mentioned the going rate is. It came with one magazine, a bayonet and a blank firing adapter. I didn't have time to take decent pictures yet, but this quick shot shows it's pretty much the usual IMBEL kit as I see it in terms of condition. Lots of finish wear but the parts all look to be in excellent condition. The bore is nice and shiny. Plenty of cosmoline to clean out. I'm pretty happy with it - now I'm shopping replacement parts and the necessary tools for the build. This is going to be fun!
ThePitbullofLove		#16	[-]
Posts: 6539 (04/28/09 02:14 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yup...looks like one of Dan's Grade 2 or Grade 3 kits. Should make a fine shooter and is a strong candidate for refinishing. Congrats. Life is the crummiest book I ever read, there isn't a hook; Just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up...
ParallaxBill		#17	[-]
Posts: 16227 (04/28/09 05:31 PM) Owner/operator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ken I recently rebuilt (properly) one Imbel kit for a friend and although it looks just like your kit it turned out to be a tack driver. I was so impressed I wanted to buy it. Parallax *Lee Enfield Collector's Society member #3* *Mauser Shooter's Association member #17* Forum administrator for the Carolina C&R Shooting & Collecting Club,
ParallaxBill		#18	[-]
Posts: 16228 (04/28/09 05:38 PM) Owner/operator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Brian, I silver soldered my 5 slotted L1A1 hider on mine once I had enough parts changed out. Now mine is running L1A1 furniture, mostly USA made compliance parts internally plus some floorplates for good measure. Not that anyone is going to check my rifle, it's just good to play by the rules. Besides all that, I love the look of the Falkands War era British L1A1's in the pebble stocks. BTW, my L1A1 was a Century built R1A1 on an Imbel receiver. It has always run well since I replaced the gas tube pin they (century) had left out. They did that a lot in those days. Parallax *Lee Enfield Collector's Society member #3* *Mauser Shooter's Association member #17* Forum administrator for the Carolina C&R Shooting & Collecting Club,
Ken Shabby		#19	[-]
Posts: 474 (04/29/09 12:17 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Encouraging words! The finish wear doesn't bother me at all - it really looks like a proper battle rifle that's been issued. Bill, I agree about the L1A1s. I think they are the best-looking of the FAL designs. If I could have found a decent L1A1 kit with barrel I would have gone that way. If this build goes well for me I'll have all the tools to do another, so an L1A1 might be a future project... The bore condition on this IMBEL looks great though, I think it will make a great shooter. I'm going to put it together without refinishing the metal and see how it looks. I can always have it redone later. But one of the things I like about my rifles is honest wear - once it's gone you can't put it back (although refinishing a FAL doesn't seem to ruin it's collector value compared to, say, a refinished GEW 88 or other battle rifle). Right now I'm fooling around shopping for plug gauges, locking shoulders, headspace gauges and the like...seems like the only thing I'm really going to have to scrounge around for is a receiver wrench so I can put the upper in a vise when I screw in the barrel. Last Edited By: Ken Shabby 05/02/09 11:29 PM. Edited 2 times.
Cabinetman		#20	[-]
Posts: 5325 (05/11/09 08:08 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You stated that you'd like to be a close to authentic as possible. In that case, forget about any "metric" kits like the Imbel. You'll want only to look for an Aussie, Brit, or Canadian kit. That's because none of those iterations of the venerable FAL were ever made in select fire. The metric models were. The Brit, Canadian, and Aussie (as well as NZ) kits were ALL semi-auto only from the get-go. Therefore, if you build one of them you'll have a rifle that is virtually identical to the original. Cool huh? Now, for the tiny details. Check out the number and style of cooling vents cut into the handguards. They differ from iteration to iteration. Find a good photo of an original and then pursue that handguard as sometimes it's the only thing that differentiates one iteration from another. A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.