BSW Suhl in Military 22 Caliber Target & Training Firearms Forum

0 Points

Forum Jump

BSW Suhl

Author	Comment
M2	BSW Suhl	Lead	[-]
Posts: 6 Jun 30 09 1:26 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Found this site while researching a little BSW Suhl that i bought a few weeks ago. Posted some pics on the Rimfire Central forum and got some good info there. Just checking here for the possibility of any more information. I know (think?) it it is a pre-war model, made by Simpson & Co prior to the Nazi's taking control. It appears that Simpson started mfg in 1934, then around ser#220000 (1939?) the proof mark was changed to eagle over N. So....with my ser# being 136652 that probably would put it in the 1934 -1939. Seems to be a smoothe little 22, and came with what appears to be the original sling, sights, etc. My main question being...is there any way of determing a more accurate mfg date??
	Remove this ad
cwd1013		#1	[-]
Posts: 664 Jul 3 09 6:52 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It's a military training rifle called a DSM34 and it was "named" the DSM to "prove" it was a sporting rifle to get around the rules prohibiting the manufacture of military rifles under the treaty of Versailles as part of the general arming of Germany before the Nazi's came "out of the closet". It's most probably made between 34 and 37 because in 37 (and for the rest of the war) the design changed to more closely follow the look and feel of the k98 at which time name changed to KKW. The main difference between the DSM and KKW are the addition of a k98 type bayo lug, 98 style barrel bands and a true cleaning rod instead of the wood screw type stacking rod. Your sling is a very nice addition and quite desireable, be very careful with it and try to avoid most leather treatments as they will damage it long term. I can offer some advice (if you're interested) in the best way to clean the wood and metal without altering or damaging it, so please procede with caution if you are unsure about proper preservation methods. Last Edited By: cwd1013 Jul 3 09 6:55 AM. Edited 1 times.
M2		#2	[-]
Posts: 6 Jul 3 09 4:38 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	CWD1013: Thank you so much for the reply and the offer of assistance in cleaning the wood. To answer your question "YES", i am very instrested in knowing your process for cleaning. And thanks for helping with a more accurate date too!! M2
cwd1013		#3	[-]
Posts: 664 Jul 4 09 10:07 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The stocks received the standard commercial finish of the day which was a shellac based varnish over a curing oil (probably linfolen or flaxseed oil). I use "Howard's Feed-N-Wax" but if you can't find it you can use vaseline PLUS and old toothbrush and some paper towells. Gently brush the stock with the toothbrush and vaseline (or Howard's) and then wipe down the stock with paper towells. You may get MANY different opinions on how to clean the stock but whatever you do, DO NOT use any stiff bristle brushes, sand paper, scotch bright, or ANY abrasive paper or sanding block of ANY kind! The fact is that the less you do to it, the more it is worth (and will be worth in 100 years). The metal can best be cleaned (after removal from the stock of course) with brass wool, brass bristle brushes (hand driven, no dremel tools here) AND either "Kroil" (works best but STINKS!) or Breakfree "CLP" (also works, but not as quick AND does not STINK). Gently rub or brush your chosen liquid over all the blued bits and then wipe with paper towells. If you find some grunge or rusty bits that want to resist your efforts, just soak them for a day and try again. In fact, I prefer to soak all the bits for a day or two (by drizzling liquid over them, not submerging) and then a day or two later slowly, gently start rubbing with the brass wool. Avoid steel wool, although it works faster than brass wool, it scratches the bluing, and in some cases ruins it. Using brass wool and brushes will deposit some brass color on the blue, but a quick wipe with "Hoppes Bench Rest" will take it right off... Enjoy, that's a nice DSM and still quite shootable AND accurate I'd wager.. Last Edited By: cwd1013 Jul 4 09 10:10 AM. Edited 1 times.
n64atlas		#4	[-]
Posts: 602 Jul 4 09 2:02 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Simpson was out of the picture by the time the BSW logo was placed on the DSM-34's . The NAZI party had control of the company. The hard part about finding the year the other DSM 34's were made is lack of records. The BSW is even a bit harded to determine because the serial numbers are in the group that includes the 625 series rifles that Simpson started and BSW continued to make. It is estimated that there were around 6000 of the BSW DSM 34's made. The company was merged with Gustloff a few years after BSW took control from Simpson. Congrats on your find.
Aeisir		#5	[-]
Posts: 34 Jul 5 09 9:05 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	At ~136,000, your rifle would have been in the mid-late 1930's perhaps 1937-8. It appears the numbering for Simson/BSW/Gustloff was sequential regardless of the model (Mod. W625, DSM-34, KKW). The KKW's appear to have started at 200,000, DSM's are typically found in 130,000's to 180,000's, and W625 A, B &C's from 107,000 to over 200,000. There are blocks of numbers that just don't show up, leading many to opine that the total production numbers for the various models are lower than might be figured from the simple math. Party Leader Fritz Sauckel forced Arthur Simson to 'donate' the company to the party and combined the firm with other manufactories in 1936 calling it BSW. In 1939, the transition to a new name, Gustloff-Werke occurred. The changeover of the commercial proofs from BUG to E/N occurred in April 1940 and both proofs can be found in rifles serialed around 210,000 during the transition. My BSW DSM-34 has Simson stamped parts (triangle with 'S') and it is serialed about 3,000 earlier than yours. The best way to guestimate manufacturing date is to monitor the numbers and characteristics of the various models as well as read the investigative documents pertaining to the dispossessions, etc., by the nazis in the archives of the USA and European countries. Also important to read the Jon Speed book on smallbores and the new book by other experts long rumored for publication sometime this year.
M2		#6	[-]
Posts: 6 Jul 6 09 1:11 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks guys!!!!!! That is a lot more info than i had on the little 22, and i really appreciate the response. I will try the Howards Feed-N- Wax if i can find it locally, if not, well guess it's Vaseline Plus. All the other products i already have. Again...Thanks to each of you!!!
	Remove this ad
Big Dog		#7	[-]
Posts: 125 Aug 6 09 4:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Amazing...a man just left my shop with one of these 22s. He wanted to know something about the rifle and it's value. His father brought it back. Does anyone have a guess of the value. Thanks, BigDog
Aeisir	value	#8	[-]
Posts: 34 Aug 6 09 5:57 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The value of DSM-34 rifles usually fits in a range of $500-1000. For an average rifle of average condition, around $600-800 has been a going rate recently. Two of the more popular auction sites have DSM's currently in the $600 range. For rarer versions, unit or SA marked, and examples of exceptional original condition, the price escalates fast. As always, knowledge helps keep collectors out of trouble.
reddogge		#9	[-]
Posts: 5025 Aug 8 09 8:25 AM Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Try your local antique store for Howard's products or go online and order it. Beats vaseline by a mile. "What happened? What the HELL happened?" Jake Holman "The Sandpebbles"
brian s	Saw the post	#10	[-]
Posts: 1 Jul 24 10 6:57 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wow, great info. I inherited one of the "out of the closet" models with the bayonet lug from my grandfather, who brought it back from WWII. I've been shooting it for ~ 20 years and loving every minute. Unfortunately, I lost the cleaning rod while I was a kid, which I would love to replace if anyone knows where I could order one. Last time I had it appraised I was told $350 with the missing rod and a bent front sling mount. They immediately tried to buy the gun in order to build a target rifle with the action. Since I'm posting this, you can guess what my answer was. Last Edited By: brian s Jul 24 10 6:59 PM. Edited 1 times.
danl		#11	[-]
Posts: 8 Aug 8 10 7:34 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Excellent choice, Brian S. Post a picture if you can. Repro rods (both stacking and cleaning) for German .22LR trainers can be found. At an auction last weekend, prices ranged from 800-2300 for the type of rifle you describe. Your appraisal might be outdated.
	Remove this ad