$20,000 Luger anyone??

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FLAPJACKHAPPY	$20,000 Luger anyone??	Lead	[-]
Posts: 218 (07/03/09 11:29 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I was browsing www.manions.com if you look in the firearms section they have a $20,000 Russian Luger. I would post the actual link but it is an active auction and no its not my gun but I thought it was an interesting unit...
eb in oregon		#1	[-]
Posts: 931 (07/03/09 08:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I find the cost of collecting anything really "cool" these days to be out of reach to the common guy. Remember just a few short twenty years ago when one could buy a live, resistered MG-42 for only $2,500 to $3,500? And these days I can't find it in my heart to spend that much for something like a pre-war Radom VIS 35, which is kind of on the lower end of a really, really nice one. Oh well. Eric "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776
VIS35		#2	[-]
Posts: 3246 (07/03/09 10:17 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well, if one were to bid on that pistol, hope they can afford to throw money down a snake hole and not worry. Examine the crossed Mosin rifles very carefully and also the safety marking. They are both in my opinion, to be gentle, fake and not well done at that. The holster is for the 1906/1908 Bulgarian Luger. Francis VIS aka Blind Hog "Even a Blind Hog sometimes finds an acorn"
usernamehasbeentaken		#3	[-]
Posts: 570 (07/04/09 08:32 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	you got a sharp eye there, Vis when something like this surfaces, always makes me wonder just how much the Seller knows about the item on these 'higher end' auctions, everyone should be held to a higher standard of legit authenticity Caveat Emptor is never more apropo Bob Last Edited By: usernamehasbeentaken 07/04/09 08:35 AM. Edited 1 times.
glock40man		#4	[-]
Posts: 219 (07/04/09 08:50 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	No doubt that this is one of Hitlers personal Luger"s. I've ran across this from time to time over the years. He must have had more Luger"s then the whole German army! But it just go"s to show how out of whack price"s have become. Just take a look at some of them on Gunbroker. A fool and his money are soon parted.
VIS35		#5	[-]
Posts: 3249 (07/04/09 04:16 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The really sad thing is that Waffenfabrik USA is getting better and better at turning out spurious items. There are several operating from Arizona, Pennsylvania and Michigan, be careful of items from some vendors in these areas. Of course the pirates know that there are just enough collectors out there that do not know or care to educate themselves as to what a "good" item looks like. The one on the auction was most likely a 1906 Bulgarian contract, originally and correctly rebarreled to conform to the 1908 Bulgarian contract. A scarce pistol in itself, but after a few enhancements, it becomes a super rare and valuable Russian contract. Francis VIS aka Blind Hog "Even a Blind Hog sometimes finds an acorn"
eb in oregon		#6	[-]
Posts: 935 (07/05/09 06:41 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm just wondering exactly what you see that convinces you that the pistol is fake. What information is available for one to "educate" him/her self, and what original pictures are available to cross check markings and such. Eric "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776
VIS35		#7	[-]
Posts: 3253 (07/05/09 09:22 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"I'm just wondering exactly what you see that convinces you that the pistol is fake" Well, first the chamber marking , DWM would not have applied such a crappy rendition of the crossed Mosin rifles. The rifles on originals are quite accurate renditions of the Mosin. Also the original crests were applied by pressing with roll dies or high pressure hydraulic presses, thereby precluding "die bounce". I would like to examine the auction offering under at least 20x magnification, without the white high lighting of course. Note the contour of the receiver chamber and surface, perhaps an indication something was removed (?Bulgarian Crest?). The font of the safety marking does not match known originals. Although not shown in auction photos, the extractor markings would also be an identifier. Of course that has been known to be faked also. There is a difference between Bulgarian and Russian exractor marking. "What information is available for one to "educate" him/her self, and what original pictures are available to cross check markings and such" There are a dozen or so books, publications and articles written on the subject of Lugers that a collector could avail himself of. A short list would include; "The Luger Book" by John Walter, "World of Lugers Proof Marks" by Sam Costanzo, "Luger" by John Walter, "Lugers at Random" by Charles Kenyon, "Luger: The Multi-National Pistol" by Charles Kenyon. One could also contact experienced collectors specializing in or experienced with Lugers and also that modern invention, discussion forums such as the one you are on now. There are a couple that deal exclusively with Lugers. If you so desire, I can email you larger high resolution links to the photos below and links to Luger specific Sites. Auction, Crest: Crest from "Luger: The Multi-National Pistol": Francis VIS aka Blind Hog "Even a Blind Hog sometimes finds an acorn"
eb in oregon		#8	[-]
Posts: 944 (07/05/09 09:41 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I was pretty sure that it was the "crappy" rendition of the chamber markings, but not having ever seen (or even heard of) the aforementioned variation of the Luger, I was driven to ask. VIS35, you sir, humble me with your C&R wisdom. I salute you. eb "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776
ThePitbullofLove		#9	[-]
Posts: 6583 (07/06/09 01:07 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	VIS35 wrote: "I'm just wondering exactly what you see that convinces you that the pistol is fake" Well, first the chamber marking , DWM would not have applied such a crappy rendition of the crossed Mosin rifles. The rifles on originals are quite accurate renditions of the Mosin. Also the original crests were applied by pressing with roll dies or high pressure hydraulic presses, thereby precluding "die bounce". I would like to examine the auction offering under at least 20x magnification, without the white high lighting of course. Note the contour of the receiver chamber and surface, perhaps an indication something was removed (?Bulgarian Crest?). The font of the safety marking does not match known originals. Although not shown in auction photos, the extractor markings would also be an identifier. Of course that has been known to be faked also. There is a difference between Bulgarian and Russian exractor marking. "What information is available for one to "educate" him/her self, and what original pictures are available to cross check markings and such" There are a dozen or so books, publications and articles written on the subject of Lugers that a collector could avail himself of. A short list would include; "The Luger Book" by John Walter, "World of Lugers Proof Marks" by Sam Costanzo, "Luger" by John Walter, "Lugers at Random" by Charles Kenyon, "Luger: The Multi-National Pistol" by Charles Kenyon. One could also contact experienced collectors specializing in or experienced with Lugers and also that modern invention, discussion forums such as the one you are on now. There are a couple that deal exclusively with Lugers. If you so desire, I can email you larger high resolution links to the photos below and links to Luger specific Sites. Auction, Crest: Crest from "Luger: The Multi-National Pistol": Francis is slightly amazing. I take his word as gospel at all times. Life is the crummiest book I ever read, there isn't a hook; Just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up...
high speed cruise		#10	[-]
Posts: 3029 (07/06/09 02:09 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	So either it's a fake or UBER RARE since they must have only messed up a handful of crests like that! LOL I'd be very wary about buying any "rare/collector's" piece since I don't know anything about them. That (clear) crossed rifle crest is awesome though! Thanks Francis! You da bomb on this stuff. hsc
Vladymere gr		#11	[-]
Posts: 2506 (07/06/09 10:09 AM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Francis' knowledge is amazing and we are fortunate to have him as a mentor and resource on this board. Now, if he would only get off his keester and write a book on Radom M35 pistols. Geez, he's retired now, he has plenty of time to do it. Vlad Looking for Gew.88 based sporting rifles Looking for a Lyman #22 sight for the Gew.88/Mannlicher
FLAPJACKHAPPY		#12	[-]
Posts: 221 (07/06/09 07:58 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm glad I wasnt in the market for this handgun , I'd never seen a russian luger before and thought the mosin crest was pretty cool. I could think of several classic Fords I could buy with a 20k opening bid!LOL Kudos to Francis on his eagle eye .. His knowledge as well as the collective knowledge of this boards members never ceases to amaze me ....