BRNO 8 mm Questions in The Czech Military Rifle Forum Forum

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BRNO 8 mm Questions

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DoctorBill	BRNO 8 mm Questions	Lead	[-]
Posts: 408 Dec 13 09 4:06 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : mauser, rifle, 8mm, brno, e serial number, m9822, 792x57 I have a ZBROJOVKA BRNO 8 mm Mauser just cleaned of Cosmoline. Serial Number E7593 on receiver - 8534 on Bolt - 68 on front stock band - 99 (or 66) on Safety Tab - 927 on plate in front of Bullet plate underneath. Was this made for the Turks in the 1920's ? Can you tell me: What year was it manufactured ? What is the purpose of the 25 mm round silver Button (with a hole in the center) on the stock about 4 inches from the butt end? The Hole goes thru the stock. Question mark in photo.... Where could one acquire a bayonet appropriate for this year and type Mauser ? DoctorBill Last Edited By: DoctorBill Feb 19 10 11:10 AM. Edited 11 times.
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MasterChief		#1	[-]
Posts: 1134 Dec 13 09 5:29 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	On the left side of the receiver ring, just above the serial number is (should be) an acceptance stamp in the format: E-Lion-Date. I'm guestimating yours was made in 1923. Best wishes. Dave
m1 talker		#2	[-]
Posts: 7449 Dec 13 09 5:37 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	That hole in the stock with the metal ring around it is for dissassembling the bolt and reassembling it. To get the bolt shroud installed on a bolt, it requires compression of the firing pin spring, so the firing pin tip is placed in the hole and the works compressed to get the shroud screwed onto the bolt body. Curt
DoctorBill		#3	[-]
Posts: 408 Dec 13 09 7:34 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Masterchief I just took some more photos - difficult to get lighting just right. No stamp visible there..... 1923 ? For the Turks ? Is there a web site that might have that information ? M1Talker Lord - I thought it was for stacking or transporting or like that ! I wish I could know what this rifle has seen and done....who used it and where and why....how many rounds thru it..... DoctorBill PS - Tried to confirm it is 8 mm by measuring the barrel diameter at the front end with a digital micrometer, I got 0.323 inch at the widest (inside the grooves)... I don't think this is one of those tighter versions at 0.318 inch diameter that Lee mentions in their Reloader Die kit...I just purchased. Last Edited By: DoctorBill Dec 24 09 9:35 PM. Edited 6 times.
hauptspritzer		#4	[-]
Posts: 824 Dec 13 09 8:46 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	From the crest and the other pics, I believe you have a VZ23 long rifle. IIRC the straight lettering indicates 1923 mfg. a curved lettering would indicate 1922 mfg. Without the presence of acceptance stamps or a crescent it is hard for me to determine who this might have belonged to. I am not familiar enough with the long rifle contracts to say for sure. Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965) Prime Minister of the United Kingdom 1948 Charlie...
HoosierDaddy		#5	[-]
Posts: 6204 Dec 13 09 10:37 PM Forum Co-Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Make sure the safety is in neutral or pointing up when you remove it from the action. Always make sure it is neutral before you take it apart. If not you will learn how to use the edge of Momma's kitchen table to re cock it. Ash Iron Construction
DoctorBill		#6	[-]
Posts: 408 Dec 13 09 11:49 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh YES !!! Already been thru THAT many times now! Becoming fairly adept at cocking the bolt with a screwdriver shank and flipping the Tab over at the same time.... Lord - is Cosmoline fun to remove or what !? The box it came in (Century International Arms) said M98/22 8 mm Mauser. This rifle couldn't possibly be one of those 0.318 bore rifles, could it ? Costs $40 to have a local Gun Smith do a bore check (makes a lead mold). I plan to fire the first shot with an 8mm Factory Load with the rifle under some sand bags and using a string on the trigger. You never know.... Meet you all in the Hills when the Liberals come for our guns ? Isn't it strange how "Liberal" means just the opposite of what they really are ! ? I teach Chemistry at our Community College and it is surprising how many of my students are Conservative as Hell. Of course, I am out in left field as one of the very few Conservatives (and lifetime NRA Member) who work there.... DoctorBill PS - Pardon my many edits - but my eyesight is going down the drain as I age.... Last Edited By: DoctorBill Dec 24 09 10:46 AM. Edited 5 times.
MasterChief		#7	[-]
Posts: 1134 Dec 14 09 1:13 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Endless apologies. I have one like yours. I believe they were made for export to Turkey around 1925 and later although there will be no acceptance stamp as I previously and incorrectly stated. Does yours have Arabic or Turkish numbers on the rear sight? Mine has been crudely renumbered, probably during the Westernization period in the late 1920's. Best wishes. Dave
DoctorBill		#8	[-]
Posts: 408 Dec 14 09 11:34 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks Masterchief ! I have been doing some photography of the sight and been looking on the Internet for Turkish Number Symbols (Hard to find!). Came across this interesting site ! Tons of information ! http://www.turkmauser.com/ Which leads to these internal links on that site...... http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo.aspx http://www.turkmauser.com/models.aspx http://www.turkmauser.com/serialNumbers.aspx http://www.turkmauser.com/parts/bolt/bolt.aspx http://www.turkmauser.com...r.aspx Holy Crap ! http://www.ebayonet.com/&...&...&...&...&... Bayonets ! Quotes from - http://www.turkmauser.com/Survey/DocAvResults.aspx "Just going on the serial #s alone, by 1950, Turkey must have had some 500,000 Mausers in 7,9mm available: 250,000 Kirikkale models, 15,000 Gew88/35 types, 120,000 M1893/33 types, at least 30,000 M1903/30 types, 15,000-20,000 Short rifles, and probably a 100,000 Vz98/22 Rifles, as well as quite a few thousand of Gew98, kar98a, and kar98k and gew88 unconverted, as well as some of the original 7,65 rifles as well." Here is Turkish Number Script from an Internet site - don't know if it applies - they have different scripts over there... Then here are MY SIGHTS with strange number script on it.... I can't make any sense of it. God knows which kind of Turkish Script mine has on it - and which direction you read it from ! Edited in LATER - see post number 11 ! The sight is in Persian ! No ! The picture is not backwards or a Mirror Image ! I keep finding information on the Internet.... Sure beats gumshoing around in some damned Library using the old "Card Catalog" crap of my youth ! DoctorBill PS - Just found this on the JS versus IS - 0.323 bore versus the 0.318 bore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92x57mm_Mauser Here is a German Mauser site - auf Deutsch... http://www.k98k.info/inde...mp;senden=Seite+betreten Last Edited By: DoctorBill Feb 19 10 11:40 AM. Edited 9 times.
gil		#9	[-]
Posts: 954 Dec 14 09 1:02 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Turk contract 98/22. Czech Army used the 98/22 for several years. they were produced from parts and a factory the new Czech government got as reperations for being forced to fight on the Axis side in ww1. They issued the vz-23/24 to their troops, and sold the 98/22s off to Turkey and other countries. Hard to tell if your bolt is Czech or not. Is there a circle Z mark on the underside of the bolt, or a marking that looks like a cursive L on the bolt? If so it has a czech made bolt. I wouldn´´t take it to a gunsmith myself. If you don´t have a field gauge 8x57 headspace guage clean well, take it to the range, load and wrap the action in sandbags, lean away from it and pull the trigger. Check casing for high pressure signs. Enjoy shooting this Czech long rifle, if the bore is in good shape they are very accurate rifles. gil
DoctorBill		#10	[-]
Posts: 408 Dec 14 09 2:04 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Gil...Thanks for the information...this is fascinating! Here is the stamp mark on the Bolt Trigger Catch... I rotated the Image 180° - don't know what I am looking at. The Square Bolt handle base has these marks on either side (2 sides)... My wife (who knows Farsi !), an American of English/Irish decent, has a Spoken Farsi Book and says the Mauser Sight Language is Farsi (Persian) !!!!! She is translating the numbers and I will post the sight translation soon in another reply. DoctorBill Last Edited By: DoctorBill Feb 19 10 11:46 AM. Edited 2 times.
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DoctorBill		#11	[-]
Posts: 408 Dec 14 09 2:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I am told by my wife who studied Persian (Farsi) in her younger days before meeting that wonderful fellow she married (me), that my BRNO 8mm Mauser made in Checkoslovakia for the Turkish has the sights in the Persian or Farsi language. The sight is readable in either direction ! Here is a page from her "Spoken Persian" Book - copyright 1973. What an incredible coincidence that I'd have a rifle that has a language on it that my wife could read....or is it....hmmmm! Does this mean that the Czeck Made Mauser DID NOT go to Turkey as I had found before, but went to Iran (Persia back then?) in the 1920's? My wife tells me that the people of the Middle East are quite adept at modifying weapons in back-stall shops. Could the sight have been somehow stripped of Turkish and re-done in Farsi in some Middle Eastern "shop" ? Gil - Post #9 " Turk contract 98/22."...."...the 98/22s off to Turkey and other countries." Now I am more confused than I normally am..... DoctorBill Last Edited By: DoctorBill Feb 19 10 11:32 AM. Edited 7 times.
Rustybore		#12	[-]
Posts: 1158 Dec 15 09 12:12 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	From what I remember, the entire "E" series of the vz-22 rifles were a Turk contract. In later years when the Czechs went to the vz-24, they sold their remaining vz-22's to the Turks. I have one and it is one of the best shooting Mausers I have. Kevin in Or.
m1 talker		#13	[-]
Posts: 7449 Dec 15 09 1:09 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I don't know about you guys, but the 98/22 series of Czech Mausers were the best ones ever made with a Mauser name on them. Sure they are long and unwieldly, but usually the ones I have seen have good barrels on them and they are very accurate once you get the sights set on them. The long barrel combined with Turk 8mm 154 grain bullets will consistantly give a muzzle velocity of over 3000 fps, averaging around 3050 fps. That makes the .30-06 M2 ball cartridge with the same weight bullet a second class shooter when it comes to penetrating power of gongs and such at over 200 yards. Besides with the bayonet attached, it means business to the gawkers at the range who could only wish for a toy like that. Curt
gil		#14	[-]
Posts: 954 Dec 15 09 2:01 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	your bolt handel is originally from a GEW I would guess with the fraktur markings. fracture mark on the bolt release mechanism also. By the E code rifles the Czechs were running out of the parts given to them in the Versaille treaty deal wihc included a complete GEW factory from mauser as well as the tools for the production and enough parts for 50,000 rifles. First batch of 98/22´s had a lange ski slope sight like the standard German infrantry rifle. Begingin with the A code 98722´s they used a standard tangent sight. They are great shooting rifles with lots of history to them. About 6 years ago SOG wanted to clear their inventory of them and sold them for $50.00 a piece. Unfortunately I only bought 2 of them as my postmistress really didn´t like me importing heavy long rifle boxes. I wished I had bought a dozen of them. Except for the early vz-23´s7transitional vz-24´s and earliest 3 line vz-24´s they are my favorite Czech rifles. alas I can´´t afford the more obscure and rare vz-33. gil
millman711		#15	[-]
Posts: 100 Feb 10 10 9:44 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	DoctorBill wrote: I am told by my wife who studied Persian (Farsi) in her younger days before meeting that wonderful fellow she married (me), that my BRNO 8mm Mauser made in Checkoslovakia for the Turkish has the sights in the Persian or Farsi language. The sight is readable in either direction ! Here is a page from her "Spoken Persian" Book - copyright 1973. What an incredible coincidence that I'd have a rifle that has a language on it that my wife could read....or is it....hmmmm! Does this mean that the Czeck Made Mauser DID NOT go to Turkey as I had found before, but went to Iran (Persia back then?) in the 1920's? My wife tells me that the people of the Middle East are quite adept at modifying weapons in back-stall shops. Could the sight have been somehow stripped of Turkish and re-done in Farsi in some Middle Eastern "shop" ? Gil - Post #9 " Turk contract 98/22."...."...the 98/22s off to Turkey and other countries." Now I am more confused than I normally am..... DoctorBill Hey DoctorBill, I read somewhere, perhaps on that Turk site you linked to, that the Turks used that kind of sight leaf up until 1928, at which point they began using sight leaves with regular (for us) numbers. It is a Turk rifle you have and not a Persian.
ryg		#16	[-]
Posts: 256 Feb 13 10 10:28 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The numerals used on the old Turkish contract rifles are in use throughout the Middle East and most of North Africa with slight variations in characters for 4, 5 &6 towards the eastern regions. To call these numerals Farsi is like saying the numerals we use are English numerals (and not German numerals or French numerals or Russian numerals, etc).
DoctorBill		#17	[-]
Posts: 408 Feb 14 10 11:35 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	gil - I have a question then for you. My BRNO with the, possibly, G98 Bolt, does not flip the Brass out of the chamber after I fire a round and cycle the Bolt. I have tried to do this "smartly" or, shall I say "with gusto!", and it still does not flip out. I have to reach in and take hold of the bullet case and pull it out. Would that be due to the 'incorrect' bolt for the year Mauser, or would I have something basically wrong with the rifle mechanism ? Many thanks to everyone for participating here with my inquiries ! EDITED LATER: I answered my own question when I went to take a photo of the ejector lever at the back of the receiver ! I have really bad eyes for close-up vision especially in dim light - so I never saw the COSMOLINE still in there ! You can see that the lever hasn't flipped out as it should have ! Once I remove the bolt release lever and clean the Cosmoline out, the mechanism should eject the Brass... Even later....More Cosmoline that I missed earlier when I thought I had cleaned the Mauser! AFTER CLEANING....ejects the case like a champ now ! Butt Load of Cosmoline and fiberous crap was inside the ejector lever pivot. Had to boil it to get it all out. DoctorBill http://alkaspace.com/is.p...;img=Canada_Reversin.jpg Last Edited By: DoctorBill Feb 20 11 6:57 PM. Edited 9 times.
millman711		#18	[-]
Posts: 100 Feb 15 10 8:33 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It is best to completely disassemble your rifle for an initial cleaning and inspection. I don't take the band springs or the reinforcing bolts out of the stock, but all the other metal bits come off and apart and get cleaned thoroughly.
g4g5		#19	[-]
Posts: 52 Feb 19 10 9:49 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I took one of my 98/22s out to the range last week for the first time in awhile - shooting ammo I bought about 10 years ago from somebody in Shotgun News. Several rounds needed double-strikes to fire but what a sweet shooting rifle! I had forgotten just how nice it is. Working that butter-smooth action was a lot more fun than burning through clips with my Garand. I still have the 300 meter battle-zero front sight and just use a little Kentucky Windage to place my POI ... You couldn't get this rifle away from me.
lwdavis	numbers	#20	[-]
Posts: 649 Jun 23 11 9:12 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The sight picture in DoctorBill's post is Aribic-Egypt. It starts with 4 at the bottom (400 meters) and ends with 20 at the top (2000meters). These numbers were used by the Turks. The numerals given in his chart, at the top are Farsi-Persian. They start at the left with a 0 and go 10 on the right side. The 1-2-3 are the same in both these systems. I could also give you Nepali, Thai, Kanji-Chinese, but no way to type them. And then there are Roman and Western. You can usually figure them out by the sights, The first double diget will be 10, just count down to the 1 or lowest diget and you can figure from there.
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